406 | How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex, Building a Marriage That Thrives, and the Power of Proactive Fatherhood (Dave Willis)

Raising Jesus FollowersTalking to Kids About Sex
Written By Jeff Zaugg

Episode Description

Your kids are going to learn about sex from somewhere—will it be from you or from the world? In this episode, Dave Willis returns with game-changing resources for dads who want to lead intentional, shame-free conversations about sex with their kids. Plus, he shares powerful insights on strengthening your marriage through simple shifts that create deeper connection. This conversation will equip you to resist passivity and take proactive action in the areas that matter most.

  • Dave Willis and his wife, Ashley, are the authors of multiple books including the bestseller, The Naked Marriage, and their newest release, Do Marriage Better: Seven Simple Shifts for Deeper Connection. They're also Christian speakers, marriage coaches, and the hosts of The Marriage on the Line Podcast. They have four sons and live near Augusta, Georgia. Dave is passionate about helping dads lead their families with intentionality and helping couples build marriages that thrive.

    • Resist passivity and take the lead in having ongoing, shame-free conversations with your kids about sex and God's design for their bodies.

    • Your marriage is one of the first gifts you give to your children—they learn what relationships should look like by watching yours.

    • Fun is fuel for your marriage—without laughter and playfulness, everything else begins to collapse.

    • The mind feasts on what it focuses on—intentionally focus on God's plan for your family and flourishing will follow.

    • Being proactive as a husband and father isn't domineering—it's loving leadership that your wife finds attractive.

    • Create a team around your growth—invite other dads and couples to join you on the journey toward intentional parenting and thriving marriage.

  • Your wives find being proactive in you very sexy. Women, by God's design, they are attracted to a husband who takes action.

    This is episode 406 of Dad Awesome. And today I have Dave Willis joining me, a resource just dropped last week. And I've been talking with all of our Dad Awesome accelerator cohorts about the starting and intentional conversation with our kids that lasts like 12 years, an ongoing conversation about talking about how God has created our kids' bodies and how the beauty of growing into this adolescent stage and the changes happening to our bodies and talking to our kids about sex and the biblical view of sex and marriage and anticipation versus fear and instead of shame, like celebrating the changes and the future and the calling that they have to honor God with their bodies.

    And just last week, Dave and Ashley Willis dropped a resource with Family Life called How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex. And it's six conversations specifically focused on preteens. And my wife and I dove in. I talk about this with Dave today. We dove into the first session like right away, last week, right after it was released. And it's a six part. So we've got five more conversations with my oldest daughter. And this wasn't the first time, but it was a next step from a few of the books we were using for resources.

    And I just thought right away, I need to interview Dave right away. He was like, yes, I can make time. And I want to get this resource out to you dads immediately. So I'm so thankful you're listening. I just had Dave on about 30 weeks ago, episode 376. And today, having him back because of this new resource. They also just dropped, they just launched their book, Do Marriage Better: Seven Simple Shifts for Deeper Connections. So we talk about that as well. So today we'll talk about sex. We're going to talk about marriage.

    Talk about having courageous conversations, leading, taking the initiative when it comes to talking to our sons and daughters about how God has created their bodies and that they're stewards of their bodies. So I am so glad you're listening today. This is my conversation with Dave Willis.

    INTERVIEW

    Jeff: I think it's about nine months ago, not quite a year ago, we connected for the first time and since then have had the opportunity to spend some time together, which I'm very grateful for, but I wanted to just welcome you back for another conversation on Dad Awesome.

    Dave: Man, thank you, Jeff, thank you. And for those watching the video version or clip of this, like one thing I love about Zoom or Riverside that we're on is you and I look the same height right now, but in person, you're about a foot taller than me. So I'm always shorter than people expect. And I assume you're taller than people expect.

    Jeff: We try to, it's just nobody knows in the world of it. The nice thing is most stages are at least a foot high. So usually I walk up to someone who I've met before and I'm looking them right in the eye and they're like, wait, you're not on the stage. You're a step lower. Yeah. I love it. Well, just to help the dads listening understand. So we had this podcast conversation about nine months or so ago and I just, a seed was planted. It was already sold out. You guys did this marriage cruise about 18 couples, something like that, that you just poured into for a few days. And I just couldn't shake the idea of, let me just ask Dave if they can make room for one more couple.

    And so sure enough, we asked, you guys figured out a way to make room and Michelle and I, the whole thing came together at such a perfect time. And we were celebrating our 19 years of marriage and we got to spend these days and fill up this notebook. So I'm holding for the video version, I'm holding the notebook that you gave us just with, it was just a, you injected fun, passion, vision, so much as tools for our marriage.

    And the reason I share that is it's not to make all the dads feel bad they didn't get to go on a cruise with Dave and Ashley, but truly it was a gift, but it was a gift that required sacrifice, action, planning, time away. And so I wanted to say thank you, but also see what that stirs up in you, just encouraging dads to take action and not let those seeds just like fall, you know, like what would you, what was that stir up within you?

    Dave: I love that about you, Jeff. Like you're a man of action. You know, I'm going through this men's study right now with a group of guys from our church and it's like four pillars of manhood. And the first one is resist passivity. And I just, that challenged me. I love it. It's like, you know, God hasn't called us to be passive. There are times, yeah, we have to be still and we have to be patient, but never passive. Like we as men, by God's design, we have to be proactive.

    And you know, in our marriages and our lives and our work and whatever we're doing. And so it really inspired me how proactive you were, because you're a man who lives that. You resist passivity. You're like, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to conquer that next wave on the surfboard. I'm going to take that next challenge in life, whatever it is. And you were like, hey, I want to make this happen. We're going to find child care. We're going to move stuff around on our calendar. Because if you wait for just the perfect time for something, then things never happen. But I'm so glad you and Michelle were able to do that and that you just made it happen. You just willed it to happen. And it was so amazing sharing that experience with you both. You two just are such a light and a spark and brought so much fun to the group. And it's encouraging to know that it was a meaningful experience for the two of you as you celebrated your anniversary.

    Jeff: It was unforgettable and for one of the reasons it was unforgettable was we laid out a 30 year vision for our marriage. I'm not gonna share it today because we're still, you know, takes, there's time for that to kind of marinate and like take form, but we have these kind of pillars or these main elements that we want to be true about us when we celebrate 50 years, right? So it's a 31 year vision, I guess technically it was the math there. Truly, it takes time away though to see the big picture and that it provided that.

    One of the areas of initiative though, to resist passivity that you just brought up, there's a topic that I encourage dads, specifically dads and sons, and you've got four boys, and you know I have four girls, but dads can play that the catalyst, the leader, the one who steps in first and says, well, I'm gonna take initiative here. In this conversation of starting a decade long or 15 year conversation about sex with our kids, there's a need for leadership from dads and I've just been finding myself more bold in the area of telling dads that I'm with like, hey, are you, have you begun and are you continuing a safe, loving, it's a, like no questions are out of bounds. I want to journey with you versus a generation ago, the classic, like if anything, it's one chat and here's the chat for me. It was my dad saying, Jeff, do you know what sex is? Yeah. Do you have any questions? No. All right, good chat.

    Dave: Good check. Yeah, that was for a whole generation. That was kind of the talk. My dad added the very sage wisdom, just keep it in your pants. It is not bad advice, it was just a little incomplete.

    Jeff: That's it, that's it. So I've been looking for, and I have gathered, I've shared some over these years of Dad Awesome, some resources, but just a week ago. So I'm quick on this. I'm like, let's get on the, let's get on and record now, Dave, you released, you released this resource with Family Life called How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex. And we jumped right in. My wife and I, we set up separate activities for our other three daughters. And we sat with, last night, we did the first session. And again, this just dropped. I'm like, let's go. And any excuse that comes back to the action, I'm like, let's go.

    And hosting a podcast called Dad Awesome is an excuse to be that. It pushes me onward. But I just want to celebrate dads who are already entering the conversation, who have gathered resources, who have said, I'm not going to go the light version of one time and done. I celebrate, but I also celebrate you, Dave, for creating having the conversation with your four boys, but now creating this resource. And it's free, so we're not like selling something today. It's a free six-part video course with discussion guides and extra downloads and prep videos. You know, Michelle and I can watch the prep video, the two minutes, and then it's like the, I think it was like a 14-minute video for session. It's not complicated. Here's what my daughter said though. My daughter, because she's been through a couple of books with us as well. This is, the conversation was started a couple of years ago, three years ago or so, eight or nine. And it's continuing like I'm trying to encourage others. And she said, she said, dad, this is way better than a book. This is, what did she say? My wife's like, you gotta tell Dave word for word. Basically she said, this is more fun, which is your thing.

    Dave: Right, I yes. It doesn't have to be scary, you know, like it's for the kids or the parent, it doesn't have to be just, yeah, there might be some like awkward moments along the way, but even those can be fun. But this doesn't have to be scary, intimidating, it doesn't have to feel like homework. I mean, this is a gift, like sex is a gift that God has given us. And it's exciting to be able to celebrate with your kids that they're entering into young adulthood and adolescence. They're graduating into a new phase of life where they get to start having these conversations. They get to start looking forward to marriage someday and to just celebrate that with them, celebrate that their bodies are changing. It's not something to fear or to feel like shame or weirdness around. It's like God made you and he made you beautifully and you're becoming the man or the woman that he created you to be. And that's so exciting. And so yeah, just to be able to celebrate it is cool.

    And we were honored to get to do this. I really feel like it's the most valuable free resource we've ever been part of because it wasn't designed to be a free resource. Like it was going to be like a $50 paid course and a very generous donor to Family Life stepped up and said like, this is so important that people get this information. I want to remove any barrier for anybody and I want to pay, I want to make a donation to make it free for everyone. So the reason it's free is, you know, there were others out there, were donors initially who kind of helped get the project going and then one donor that kind of covered the cost to make it free. So there were people who gave to that ministry because they believe so much in this message. So it really removes any barrier. Like there are no excuses now. It's easy, it's free. And it's fun. I really do think it's fun. So thank you. Tell your daughter, thank you for that piece. That's what we wanted it to be. We were like, let's make this an enjoyable experience for the parents and the kids and memorable and meaningful.

    Jeff: Yes, yes, and a light lift that it wasn't like for my wife to be like on the same page of us both be ready for the conversation is like a tiny lift for us to be synced up. And my oldest daughter felt loved is what she felt. She felt welcomed up like you said into the beauty of this phase and our three younger daughters knew the subject matter of the conversation. Hey, Kiva, this conversation is for Kiva because of her age and Ruthie's not that far behind that she'll be having.

    And so truly it was for our family. And it was, again, now I have accountability to do the next five. It's a six video series, six part series that I'm gonna take my daughters through. And I'm just encouraging dads, why don't we play the lead role? Whether you have a son or your daughter. Why don't we play the lead role of adding this to whatever strategy you already have as far as this decade long, which we pray that every dad has a decade long, like it's start a conversation and continue this safe, loving, welcoming up prayerful. We prayed before we hit play in the video, we prayed over her. Like, why don't we play the lead? And I think that's very, that's not common for the dad, especially dad with a daughter to play the lead role. And also if you have daughters, I do feel like it's a limited, it's not that many years that all the conversations I'll be a part of. Like, it's like, this is a precious season. And then, and then my wife will play almost, she'll probably play 99% as it goes a little bit older. But what a precious moment. So what would you add to the dads playing the lead role here?

    Dave: Well, it makes such a difference. It makes such a difference in the life of your son or the life of your daughter. Especially, I've found, even though I don't have a daughter myself, I love our four boys, but there's a very special and unique bond father to daughter in that season of adolescence and growing into womanhood, where by you taking the lead and loving and leading her through that season, it's protecting her heart. And it's also, it's protecting her from looking for counterfeit male attention. And there's a lot of that out there.

    And if the father doesn't take the lead, then what happens is she becomes much more susceptible to some hormonal teenage hairy boy stepping in and trying to lead her in the wrong direction. And so it's important for so many reasons. But by you taking the lead in this season, what you're doing is you're making an investment in your relationship with her for the rest of her life. I think these are probably the most important years in a father-daughter relationship. And what you do or don't do now is really going to impact what your relationship with her looks like 10, 20, 40 years from now. And so I'm so glad, Jeff, that you're setting an example for dads and daughters to follow.

    Jeff: And as a flyover, just because obviously I'm bringing in a lot of excitement, this is a fresh resource that we've been praying for, this type of resource to add to our plan. But just as a flyover of what is the, you don't have to necessarily hit all six themes at the six videos around, but how would you describe the experience for the dad? There's no cost barrier, you said that. To take the time to sign up though, and to actually go into a little bit of the prep to understand and set up the time and to be the catalyst. Just give a little more flyover so they know what they should expect.

    Dave: Yeah, definitely. I think most of us, myself included, we kind of entered into these initial conversations with our kids feeling unequipped because we think, well, I didn't get the good talks. You know, like we came from a generation, most of us, where we weren't getting all the info. Like you said, it was sort of like, you know what sex is? Good. All right, let's move on. And there's so much more to it than that. And our kids are living in a world where they're having many counterfeit messages thrown at them.

    So what we try to remember is if we don't teach our kids about sex, the world's gonna do it for us and the world's gonna teach them the wrong messages. And no matter what we're doing to try to shield our kids, those messages are still gonna seep through. And so those wrong messages rather. So we need to be proactive in helping them realize that sex is nothing to be afraid of. There's no dirtiness with it. Like in the church sometimes I think we've taken the extreme of either like making it sound dirty and scary so that you never want to do it, or just like making it sound like there's just shame attached to it if you even have temptation there. And it's just the wrong message.

    What our kids need to know is that sex is beautiful, it's from God, it's a gift, it's powerful, it's a gift that's when it's misused can have some really serious repercussions and God wants to protect your heart and your marriage and your body and your mind and all of it from that. And there's no safe sex, there's no condom that can protect your heart, your mind, your body, your marriage, your emotions. So kids need to know like, it's worth waiting for, but it is a gift. It's something to look forward to. It's something to be excited about as your body starts changing and you start having those feelings. That's nothing to be afraid of. That's God's wiring in you. It's preparing you to one day be a husband or a wife, one day be a mother or a father. And we celebrate that with our kids.

    I mean, we try to have the kind of relationship where you can just celebrate with them. I remember when one of our kids one day came out of the bathroom and said, Dad, high five. And I'm like, cool, what are we high fiving about? He goes, I got a pub. And so I'm like, awesome, I don't wanna see it, but that's awesome, man. Keep me posted, they're gonna keep coming.

    And just to be able to, you know, let's celebrate your body's changing instead of feeling any kind of weirdness or shame or awkwardness, because adolescents can already kind of be awkward with changing bodies and all that, but defining a way to celebrate it, and instead of dreading this season of parenting, really saying this can be the most exciting and important season of parenting yet. And so that we try to put the course together with that kind of tone, you know, because right now, like we've got two kids that are already basically grown, two in college. And at the time we recorded this, we had one that was like 13 and one that was nine or 10. So we're kind of like all spread out. And it's the things that maybe we wish we would have done better with the first two. So we're still learning as we go. I don't think there are any experts in this, but I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

    Jeff: I like that actually, you and Ashley, I heard at some point you referred to yourselves as marriage encouragers versus marriage experts. That's right. Yeah, I have felt that through this past year of knowing you guys and just grateful on that front. There is an upstream, there's maybe to give us the grounds, maybe that's the wrong term, but to position a couple to step into this space with our kids for this decade long conversation like we're talking about around how God made our bodies and around choosing to honor God with the gift of this body that I think you even referred to where we're stewarding. The Bible talks about that our bodies are a gift that we steward.

    The upstream though is living out what we're trying to raise our kids to lean into as far as the reality. There's an eye, who am I and who am I becoming? So there's no perfect marriages, but upstream is in my friend Kevin who introduced us. Kevin made the introduction I think about a year ago. He says, you have to be husband awesome to be dad awesome. That's good. Right. He is like, you really need to focus there. And that's where the insights that we pulled away during those three days with you guys on the retreat. The book you just launched, Do Marriage Better. These themes are like the work that we do there is a direct benefit to the ability to guide our kids towards that marriage that they'll someday have. I'd love to hear your kind of how you think about the, and maybe upstream is the wrong analogy, but as you think about working on our marriage so that we can welcome our kids and cheer for our kids in all these changing stages and learning about the gift of sex and how do you see them playing together?

    Dave: Yeah, that's a great question. And for Ashley and me, marriage ministry has been like our primary focus. And I love, you know, the husband awesome before makes you a dad awesome. We've believed that in how we parent, that our marriage is one of the first gifts we give to our kids. Because, you know, if you're totally focused on the kids and you put the marriage on hold, then when the kids grow up, you realize we have an empty nest and an empty marriage. And sadly, a lot of couples are divorcing in the empty nest now.

    But when you say we're gonna put our marriage first, which is God's design, and give our kids the gift of seeing firsthand what a healthy marriage looks like and the security that comes from knowing their parents are in a loving, committed marriage, that is a security for our kids that is priceless. And so many young people now are afraid to get married and they're just shacking up, they're living together, but they're avoiding marriage. And I think the main reason why is because they just haven't seen good examples of it.

    They grew up in settings where they're like, well, I saw my mom and dad, and if that's what marriage is, I don't want it. And so we need to turn that tide and change that narrative by saying like, we want to live this out in our own marriage, you know? And we want to make our kids excited to be married someday instead of afraid of marriage. We want to treat husbands by how you're treating your wife. You're teaching your sons how to treat women. You're teaching your daughters what they should expect from men. They're gonna do what you do. They're gonna say that's the way it's supposed to look. And so really how we treat our wives is not only vital to our marriage, but it's one of the most vital aspects of our parenting. Because our kids are learning what relationships should look like by the way that our marriage looks.

    Jeff: And there's the net, we never arrive, right? That never arrive. But yet there's a coasting that will take us in a negative direction. So this last project that you just released, this book, Do Marriage Better, which also the video series that you've launched and the podcast series that kind of hits each of these seven shifts. I think if I have this right, seven shifts for deeper connection. What would you for the dads? If you just had to dial in and give a couple examples of some shifts, because we can kind of get that with it, you know, driving a standard car, we're shifting, like, let's shift into the next phase, the next degree of speed. What are some shifts that you would pull out that would just be impactful for us to add?

    Dave: Yeah, yeah, we love this new book, the Do Marriage Better book. I feel like it's the most practical marriage resource we've created. And in the years we've done marriage work, we kind of just looked at what are the main areas where if couples will focus on improvement, even incremental little shifts and improvement in these areas, it'll make a huge difference in the marriage. And the seven shifts are really those seven areas. It's like communication, sex, finances, you know, family dynamic. It's like all the stuff that couples tend to fight about if they're gonna fight.

    How to get on the same page in these areas, how to realign our thinking with, well, what's God's plan for this? What is this supposed to look like practically and biblically? And so in the book, we share a lot of the mistakes we've made along the way in these areas, things we've learned from mentors, things we've learned from scripture. And I really do feel like if you'll just focus on these seven areas and say, all right, I'm gonna, these biblical principles to growth, maybe just tackling one at a time. Maybe we're not gonna try to fix all seven at once, but let's just start with our communication. How would our communication in marriage look different if our words reflected God's plan for our words and our tone reflected God's plan for our tone? And how would that change the climate in our whole house? What can we do to make some shifts in that area? And then one by one, do them. I'm telling you, it'll make a huge difference in your home, in your kids, in your marriage. So yeah, we're excited about that resource. There's a free small group video study that accompanies the book. So you can go through the videos. It's like a free additional resource. You don't need to be in a small group to do them. You can just watch them yourself. But if you have a small group, it's a great study to go through together, I think.

    Jeff: Because we, you know I learned about this new video series about talking to our kids about sex and we jumped on like four days later to this. I have not read this latest book yet, but I have my notes from our time together and I just am going to pull a few of those principles for you to just elaborate on to help encourage us. So one of them was care, curiosity and concern versus criticism in this, I would guess is in the communication side of care, curiosity and concern. Putting my focus there versus being a critic, right? Criticism. Yeah, share a little bit of your heart on that.

    Dave: Yeah, that's really one that Ashley has taught me because she's modeled that so well. And she lives that out, you know, where I'm, if I'm like in a really grumpy mood or something where I'm just, you know, not pleasant to be around, we all have those moments. Instead of doing what she could do and even has a right to do, which is to really be confrontational with me about that, critical with me about that. Like, do you have any idea how you're coming out? I've had a stressful day too. I mean, all that stuff. She leans in with care and with curiosity, are you okay? You seem like there's maybe you're carrying some stress. You know, can I help with anything?

    And what it does is it instantly disarms me. And it's a gentle way of holding up a mirror to me and letting me know like, hey, I'm coming across kind of as a jerk right now, or I'm coming in hot. And maybe I need to just realize how that's perceived in my family, even if it has nothing to do with them. And so I try to do that as well with our kids, with Ashley, even though she's not grumpy nearly as often as I get. But to lean in with curiosity, hey, are you okay? Is there anything going on that I can help with? Hey, do you need a snack? Can I bring you something to eat? Sometimes it's just something that simple.

    And it makes a big difference. It's really just choosing to believe the best in each other. I think that's one of the hallmarks of a healthy marriage is just saying, you know what, when my spouse is not at their best, I'm gonna choose to believe the best in them. That they're not trying to hurt me. They're not trying to be rude. They're hurting and they're human and they love me and they want good things for our marriage. And I'm going to keep that in mind even on the days when they're at their worst.

    Jeff: Yeah, yeah, that's great. Really helpful. Another just takeaway from our notes from that experience was fun is fuel. Fun is fuel. Yeah, tell us more about that.

    Dave: Well, it is. It's that simple, I think. You know if your marriage feels like it's kind of on empty and you're just on fumes, it's because life is hard and it takes a lot of fuel to have a marriage with raising kids and paying bills and just all of the things. And so I think a lot of times in those busy seasons, which every season is a busy season, if we're honest, we just put fun on the back burner because we think it's frivolous or it's self-indulgent. And it's not. It's fuel. Like it is vital to your marriage, if you're not laughing a lot, like to me, like it's like an old car where the engine light pops up, you got to pay attention to those warning lights that come up on your dash. And a lack of laughter is a huge warning light in a marriage saying something's off.

    Fun doesn't have to be like really expensive. It doesn't have to be, I mean, it's great when you can do like what we did last year and go on a cruise. That was so fun. And that's amazing. If you can do stuff like that, do it. But you don't need to spend a lot of money to have fun. I mean, you can, it's just prioritizing an attitude of playfulness with each other and making sure that you're carving out time for the two of you just to connect, which almost everybody does when they're dating. Even if you're totally broke when you're dating, you find ways just to laugh and just to have fun and to be together and enjoy life together, enjoy the moments, the simple moments. And in marriage, if you've gotten out of the habit of doing that, eventually everything else is going to start collapsing because the fun is the fuel that makes all that other stuff possible.

    Jeff: Now let's take that phrase, fun is fuel, a step deeper to intimacy, sex in the bedroom. Like there are dads listening that when they think about right now, the flame and the sex life is not fun, or it's not like we're not, that's not an area we're flourishing in our marriage. What would be some of the just top of top of mind, but the shorter version of some of your coaching, I'm just like, Hey, take a step here, take a step here, get curious here, maybe this and of course, we can link again the nine days to great sex ebook that you guys gift so I can give us the flyover that you would share.

    Dave: For sure, yeah, and we do have a free, another free resource on that at daveandashley.com. You can get it. But the flyover is, you know, what happens outside the bedroom really impacts what happens inside the bedroom. I think for most of us as men, we can compartmentalize sex. Even if everything else is going not good with our marriage, we just feel like we can still have sex and sex will make it all better. Because for most men, it's, you know, there's a high priority on it and we don't really need a lot to get in the mood for it, you know, and our wives are just wired up differently by God's design. They're going to need to feel emotional connection first. They're going to need to feel safe with you. They're going to need to laugh with you. They're going to need some non-sexual physical touch from you. Most women crave that more than most husbands give it, which is to be able to give her a massage and not expect it always to lead to more, to hold her hand in public, to put your arm around her, to just show her warmth and affection, to help take things off of her mental load.

    Because for most men, sex itself is a form of stress relief. Like when we're stressed, we're like, well, let's have sex and I'll feel better. For most women, it's opposite. They need stress relief before they can be in the mindset to make love. They need things taken off of their mental load, off their plate, so that they can be more present mentally, physically, emotionally, to be in the mindset for lovemaking. And so if you can just take them things off of her plate, you know, some chores she would normally do, you know, we call it chore play, you know, where you're, do some chores, not always, not like in a manipulative way, like I'm going to do the dishes and now it's transactional. Now you're going to have to, you know, meet me in the bedroom afterwards, but just knowing like by you being willing to do those things that she might normally do to lighten her load, that act of service is gonna help lighten her load and make it more likely that she's gonna get into the mindset.

    And if you're doing all those things already and there's still this big disconnect and you feel like there's just maybe a coldness or a distance in the bedroom, then talk specifically about it. And say, I feel like there's a disconnect here and I'm feeling it specifically in our sex life that maybe you don't, you know, you don't want me, but again, lean in with curiosity and care and concern. I wonder, are you feeling okay? Like, is there something else going on that I can help with instead of coming in just with frustration, even if you're feeling frustration of like, you just always this or you never that or, you know, that's gonna shut things down. But if you lean in with care and curiosity, it could lead to better conversations.

    Jeff: So helpful, really helpful, Dave. There's the five essential statements that was an exercise that Michelle and I had a chance and so did the other couples to work through it. I'll just quick share them and then let you share your heart on it. But this was maybe 10 minutes of we took separate time to answer this and then we shared these five statements. The first one was, I love you. Thank you for, and some specifics. I forgive you was the third. Please forgive me was the fourth. And the fifth was my dream for our future is. And it's just a few sentences on each of these things, prayerfully kind of filled out the sheet. And then I read these statements to Michelle. She did the same thing back. And the level of closeness after these five was a tremendous gift. I guess I'd love to ask you to just share your heart for kind of like these five. And then why should dads take the initiative to share these five things?

    Dave: Yeah, there's a lot of research. We adapted these five things from four things. The first four things have for a long time been used in essentially helping people find closure with loved ones in dying moments. There are statements that chaplains would use as you have a loved one who's dying to find peace in your relationship, you know, they're, you at the end to be able to say those things. So we thought, why wait until somebody's dying to really find peace? And so we made it for the living. You know we took those first four, I love you, thank you, I forgive you, please forgive me. And then added to it, and my plan for our future is, is something that we need to do regularly, you know, not just like the sex talk, it's not just a one-time talk, it's like, this is a conversation that needs to go on.

    And as simple as those things are, what I love about you, what I'm grateful for about you, not letting any grudges build up over things that we haven't addressed, either wrongs I've committed or wrongs you've committed, but we're gonna bring those out to the open and let grace deal with those, but be honest about them. And then to always be dreaming about the future. Because once the dreaming dies, the marriage really starts to die. And we need to keep doing this. And most couples don't have these conversations.

    And so in a lot of the events that we do, including that short exercise we did on the cruise, what we try to do is just give the space and the opportunity for couples to have these structured, meaningful conversations that are so powerful, but yet in the busyness of life, they just don't happen unless you're in an environment where they're specifically designed to happen. And what I love about those moments is just sitting back and watching couples, even though you, you know, from a distance, I can't hear what they're saying, but you can tell from their body language, you can tell from the looks on their faces that they're deeply connected in those moments.

    And so again, you don't have to go on a cruise to do this guys, take those five statements and, and just, you know, have, have some coffee with your wife and say like, Hey, I got an idea that she's gonna love you being proactive here and say, I'd love for us to have this conversation and talk through these five statements. And I'll go first since I've had a minute to think about it. And if you need time to think about it before you go, that's fine too. But I would love for us to be able to do this and to do it regularly. And I think you're gonna find a really deep connection when you do.

    Jeff: This comes full circle to reject passivity and to being a dad who's willing to go first to take initiative, to be a catalyst. I have found that if just intent of I wanna help my marriage grow stronger. If that is the like self, it's a desire, it's intent, my follow through month after month, we have at the time of recording, we've got about 10 weeks left in the year 2025. I will halfway there five weeks from now, like lower my intentionality because I've brought initiative and I slowly become less of that in the area. Unless I add a team, unless I add, and this has been my strategy in almost every area of growth is I invite others to join.

    So as an example, I wanted to get stronger with pushups this year. So I have invited about 10 buddies to all do a pushup challenge and we're texting, it's a group text and we're doing. We're doing pushups almost every day through the end of the year. And it's, I'm sticking with it because I have a team. Your small group curriculum that you've accompanied with your latest book, great example, invite a few other couples to grow. And I think the person who goes first and says, hey, we'll host it, come over to our house, let's do these seven shifts or H, like truly the person who's just willing to go first and invite some people in and say, their marriage is going to like move, is gonna shift in a positive direction way more than if just they decide to journey alone. And the same way with the talking to our kids about sex, if I text five other dads and I say, challenge you guys in the next month to watch at least the first two videos with your son or daughter, let's celebrate, report it. I'm going to finish those six sessions with my, if I invite a few other dads in. So that principle of be the first and get some others to come along, what would you add to it? What would you add to kind of spur these guys on?

    Dave: Yeah, I would just say, you know, your wives find being proactive in you very sexy. If you need any motivation, women, by God's design, they are attracted to a husband who takes action. And so I think as husbands sometimes we think going with the flow is what we're supposed to do. And there are certainly a time for that of just, you know, whatever you want, whatever you want. But really, our wife doesn't take that after a certain point, she doesn't take that as being easygoing. She takes that as like you putting all the weight of the decisions and the action on her.

    And so what she, what really biblical, healthy Christ-like leadership looks like in marriage, it isn't domineering, it isn't just demanding your own way, it's not that at all, but it's being proactive. It's again, it's resisting passivity. It's saying, it's like, I would really like for us to do this. I think this would be great for us. And then taking this step of action to really make it happen. Could we go through this video series together and talk about it? Could we have this conversation? Could we get together a few couples and do a small group around this series for just six weeks? You don't have to commit to life, but for the next six Sunday nights, could we have some people over and go through this together and I'll just send out the text messages. It's not you just assigning more work to your wife, but saying, I know some of this would fall on you as well, but I want to take the lead here.

    You know, even if she's like, well, that won't work in this season, but she's still going to think it's hot that you put it out there. So just be proactive. That's what spiritual leadership looks like. It's not, you know, it's going up on a mountain with a staff and yelling out commandments at your family. It's lovingly leading them toward opportunities just by being proactive and taking initiative. And so just be willing to do that more. And you're doing it just by listening to this right now. I mean, you are being proactive right now, just to affirm you. I mean, you're deep into a podcast episode where most of those wimps probably just clicked off halfway through. You're listening, you're finishing strong. You're wanting to be an awesome dad, an awesome husband.

    And God always rewards those kinds of investments, intentional investments we make to get better at the things that matter most. And you're doing it right now. So don't like walk away from this feeling beat up like, I got so much more to do. We all have more to do, but still pat yourself on the back to like, I did something today. I did something specifically to be a better husband and better dad. This is like a pushup challenge for your fatherhood.

    Jeff: Yes. But do the push-shifts too. Yes, do that too. The health shift, yes. The last one-liner phrase that I took away that was in our notebook was, the mind feasts on what it focuses on. Yeah. I'll say it one more time. The mind feasts on what it focuses on. And this is just an invitation to all of us dads to focus on God's bigger plan for our family, for our kids, for their future marriages, put more focus there. Well, then my mind is going to think with creativity and pursuit and gathering resources and creating margin in my schedule, you know, feast on the wife that God has gifted to me in my marriage. And then, man, if I focus there, I'm going to, like the flourishing will follow. So I just, I love that phrase, that invitation and there's this perspective shift. I want to invite you, Dave, just to pray over all of us dads. Just a short prayer. And again, grateful for all these resources. They'll all be linked in the show notes. And just thank you for all your encouragement.

    Dave: Absolutely, thank you, Jeff. Let's pray. Father, first off, thank you from my brother, Jeff and Michelle. They're four precious girls and just the way that Jeff is modeling, not perfection, because none of us are perfect, but he's modeling such health for dads to follow. And I learned so much just from his example, from his passion, which is contagious. And I just pray your blessing on him, his family, and on his work. And I pray for every dad that's listening right now. God, you've called us to know, fatherhood, is such a beautiful and high and rewarding and difficult challenge some days, but it's such a gift, God, the legacy that we're able to create through this assignment is something so beautiful, something that will far outlive us, but none of us get it right all the time.

    So give encouragement to the dads who are struggling right now, give direction to all of us, Lord, to help keep moving forward in the right direction. Just give us that right next step, God. As men, we're fixers, we want to fix everything all at once, but usually, You're much more patient than that and you want us to just kind of focus on one thing at a time. So show us that next thing that we need to do, whether it's maybe proactively doing a small group with our wife, maybe it's having these conversations about sex with our kids. Maybe it's something completely different as they're right next step, but show all of us, give us grace for the journey. We love you and thank you Lord in Jesus' name, amen.

    OUTRO

    Thank you for joining us for episode 406 with Dave Willis. I want to encourage you guys, make sure you go download this free resource from Family Life. I will link it in the show notes in any of the podcast apps you're listening to. You can link right over and get this six part video series. So I want to encourage you also to check out Dave and Ashley's most recent book, Do Marriage Better. That's all going to be listed in the show notes at dadawesome.org/podcast and just look for episode 406.

    Guys, let's be dads who take action, take initiative, who lead into the uncomfortable. And this topic, I mean this week. We can either say, I intend to do this at some point in the next few years, or we can say, no, in the next seven days, I'm gonna have the first conversation. I'm gonna move our family into intentional conversations about how God has created our sons and daughters and their bodies and their changing bodies and the future that God has for them and the gift of sex within marriage. And guys, let's press in, let's have these conversations and your kids will say thank you. Maybe not immediately, but they will say thank you. So I'm praying for you guys. Have a great week.

    • "Your wives find being proactive in you very sexy. Women, by God's design, are attracted to a husband who takes action."

    • "Fun is fuel. If your marriage feels like it's on empty, it's because you've put fun on the back burner. Laughter isn't frivolous—it's vital."

    • "If we don't teach our kids about sex, the world's gonna do it for us and the world's gonna teach them the wrong messages."

    • "The mind feasts on what it focuses on. Focus on God's plan for your family and the flourishing will follow."

    • "Resist passivity. God hasn't called us to be passive. There are times to be still and patient, but never passive."

 

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