391 | Why Your Family is a Garden Not a Machine, The Power of Weakness in Parenting, and Creating Sacred Space (Dave Brickey)
Episode Description
What if your family isn't broken and doesn't need fixing—but is actually a garden that needs nurturing? In this episode, Dave Brickey shares how shifting from a mechanical mindset to an agricultural approach transforms fatherhood. You'll discover why your weaknesses connect you deeper with your kids than your strengths ever could, and how simple practices like prayer retreats and sacred family meals can become life-changing rhythms. Plus, Dave opens up about his wife's miraculous healing and how walking through valleys as a family creates unbreakable bonds.
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Dave Brickey is a lead pastor in the Northwest suburbs of Minnesota and father of four children in the graduation phase. He and his wife Stephanie describe their family life as a "beautiful mess." Dave is passionate about helping families shift from mechanical thinking to agricultural approaches in parenting and faith. He advocates for ancient practices like prayer retreats, sacred family meals, and building spiritual community as essential elements of thriving family life.
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The depth of relationship you experience with teenagers was built during their childhood years through consistent presence and creating a safe space
An agricultural approach to family life focuses on long-term nurturing rather than quick fixes and immediate results
Ancient practices like prayer retreats, sacred meals, and singing together can transform modern family life
Weakness and vulnerability in parenting creates deeper connection than always being the strong hero
Spiritual family—mentors, spiritual grandparents, and community—multiplies the impact of seeing, knowing, and celebrating your children
Isolation magnifies pain, while community provides perspective and hope during difficult seasons
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Dave Brickey's "Machines to Gardens" message (start at 45 minutes) -
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Beauty of parenting is marked more by weakness than strength. No one has a bird's eye view into the messiness of someone's life or the pretension and pretending of a parent's life and a child, other than a spouse. They see it all. My strength points my kids to me as their savior, but my weakness points them to who my savior is.
Welcome back to Dad Awesome. Guys, my name is Jeff Zog and today, episode 391, I have Dave Bricky joining me. I'll introduce him in just one second here, but wanted a quick shout out to our fall cohorts of the Dad Awesome Accelerator. So we currently are running actually our fifth cohort. We've got now 50 guys who have been through the Dad Awesome Accelerator, a six week coaching cohort, taking everything we've learned in nearly eight years of this ministry and bringing it to a group of just 10
dads at a time. we have we have 20 spots available this fall. We have the early fall cohort kicking off in late September and that one will wrap up by the end of October. And then we have our late fall cohort kicking off in early November and finishing up in the second week of December. So what I want to send you guys to is go over to dadawesome.org slash coaching and learn more about the experience and apply as soon as possible. Now your application, it's going to take you about 10 minutes to fill out this
application. We're not asking you to pay any money at that phase. Just simply express your heart, your interest and answer some questions. And then I'll be in touch with you back and forth because you can certainly pray into and decide, hey, actually, this fall is not the best timeline. But what I want to do is make sure that those of you who are like, I've been waiting for a chance to jump in and we what we pray for dad to jump fully in. It's about three hours of homework every single week, but it's only six weeks long. So it's not that long to one hour Zoom call. It's homework. You can get matched up with a battle brother. You'll be
match one-on-one with another dad from somewhere around the world, and then you'll journey together into this process of the accelerator in being Dad Awesome and leapfrogging forward from what it might. You can listen to podcasts for the next two years. These six weeks could be the radical change that your family has been praying for. So I wanna encourage you guys, go to dadawesome.org slash coaching. Dave Bricky, okay, he's in Minnesota. He's a lead pastor of a church there in the Northwest suburbs.
Jeff Zaugg (03:01.77)
They've got four kids. They're in the
graduation phase. just celebrated two of their daughters graduating. He describes it as a beautiful mess family life. He tells a miracle story about his wife Stephanie. By the way, I've known his wife Stephanie since we were childhood friends in Illinois growing up in the same homeschool co-op together and a love her and her family. Just fun backstory and Dave and I actually dressed up as mascots as lions at a women's hockey game back 25 years ago. So we've got a lot of backstory for today. I mean,
He actually breaks down broken machines, seeing our families as broken machines versus, no, their gardens needing nurturing. And he's got so many other, just his approach to fatherhood is gonna make you pause and say, I wanna ponder that for a little while. So welcome to episode 391. This is my conversation with Dave Brickey.
Jeff Zaugg (04:05.678)
city about a 40-foot ceiling beautiful space that you've set up for a prayer room. Yeah it's a prayer room this is a kind of off the beaten trail in our church building so yeah we envisioned it to be a prayer room so throughout the days and nights.
People will be up here doing that. We can't walk outside, it's raining. And now we're gonna do a walk for the conversation and we could have, but we'd be soaking wet. Yeah, this is cozy. As we traveled the country with...
the ministry and living in the RV, I was able to find some prayer rooms as we traveled. It was always a gift. We have our favorites, like here in Minnesota, we'll go up to Wilderness Fellowship or Pacem in Terrace, some of our favorite spots. Send to both of them. have. And I still, I mean, it takes a lot of courage for anyone to schedule a couple nights and go to live in a prayer cabin, kind of this silence. It's kind of scary.
But I'm like the biggest fan of cheering for, praying for, helping my buddies prepare for taking that. Like I would assume most dads listening have not done a prayer retreat. man, I just think.
just scheduling it, taking the step can be a real life altering experience. It really can. I'd love to hear even a little bit, why did you choose to go out in the woods to a prayer cabin? It probably mirrors with some of why you've created the space here for your congregation. But yeah, go a little deeper into why pause and extended time in prayer. Well, I think.
Jeff Zaugg (05:41.362)
I mean, Jesus modeled it. He escaped. And I like the word escaped, which actually translate into the actual word escaped. He had to escape into the wilderness often. and I just believe that if there's not an escape for me.
So much of the culture I'm surrounded with starts to work its way into my soul and I start to lose perspective and I can feel when I start losing perspective, my anxiety starts to increase, my fear starts to increase, my dad guilt starts to increase. then escaping has a way of creating space, almost like putting up a sail and, you know, God makes the wind blow so you don't have to make anything happen. But you put up the sail.
And it is just a centering. I like to have a rhythm of a two night away time. Pacham and Terrace has been one of those places for me. They call the middle day the desert day. Sure. At I've heard. I think it was at Pacham they explained that.
I mean, I'm an extrovert. I love to meet people, talk to people, process with people. So it was a stretch for me, but I'm hooked. It's been over a decade that I've been hooked on getting away, like you're saying. I usually get a stack of paper and a Sharpie and the floor is covered with just amazing what flows out when you actually pause. Holy shit, it's speaking.
I don't do that in normal rhythm unless I get away from distractions. I love it. And you just named that it's not a personality trait that causes somebody to practice the way of Jesus in that way. It's actually for everybody, introverts, extroverts. So that's cool. Now, you're at the favorite season for me when I turn on the microphones and chat with a friend about dad life, a pivot season of your oldest two.
Jeff Zaugg (07:41.166)
kids just graduated and you just had a grad party. Yeah, last weekend. the change in chapter of it's the next chapter. You're launching, you're reflecting, you're like, it's a beautiful moment. What, well first maybe just the landscape of how old your kids are and just set up a little bit the context. Sure, yeah. So my oldest two, Ava and Sophie, are both 18 and graduated this past spring.
Camille is 16 and my son Jude is 15 and almost my height. So what have some of the years, these 18 years or even the last chapter of high school, what are some of the things you've learned as a dad that you're seeing now that maybe you didn't know a handful of years ago? Sure. One thing that comes to mind is the depth of relationship that I'm experiencing in the teen years with my children. That well was dug.
during their childhood years. Gosh, get emotional thinking about it. Sorry. Maybe it's because we have the prayer music playing in the background too. But I do. I mean, I think because I'm at a threshold, feel really, you know, a huge part of parenting isn't, isn't receiving its letting go. And there is a letting go that's really sweet. But
So, but that's one thing that a part of the some of the fruit of us being a safe place in their teen years is really found not in some sort of magical awesome parenting, but just being very present during their childhood years. I think that's one thing that really stands out to me. Another thing that stands out to me is that the beauty of parenting is and this has been so freeing for me.
is marked more by weakness than strength. No one has a bird's eye view into the messiness of someone's life or the pretension and pretending of a parent's life than a child, other than a spouse. They see it all. They see it all. looking back, and again, we still are in the journey, looking back though, my strength points my kids to me as their savior.
Jeff Zaugg (09:55.234)
but my weakness points them to who my savior is. And I remember often my daughter, Ava, who's now 18, and she's a little girl. I want to say she was six years old, six years old. And I had a mentor of mine encourage me to not just be a leader in different ways in my home, but to be a leader in repentance.
to actually own my flaws and don't not pretend like they're not there. And so I don't know. I'm sure a lot of people can relate coming home feeling whether it's, you know, as a father, when I come home, I realize that I can bring a cloud into the home of just from being grumpy. And I remember repenting to my daughter, Ava. I don't remember exactly what happened, but I do remember the question she asked. She said, Daddies need Jesus, too.
And yeah, we do. Yeah, right. And to me, like she was like a little prophet. And it was so freeing for me to begin to open up to the understanding that their world isn't going to be a shape. It's not just my strengths that win the day in their hearts. It's actually my weaknesses that. So the whole thing, you lead with your strengths, but you connect through your weaknesses.
with children, there is a leadership role for sure. And I do have strength, but the connection is born in my relatability and in my weakness and both of our needs for a savior. I'm seeing that right now. I guess my kids are, my oldest are 18. It's like I'm more relating with them as little adults. Don't tell them I said little adults. Not little. But yeah, anyway, those are a few things that stand out. We want like you mentioned if I
am only strong, then they're drawn to calling me or seeing me as the savior. Because I bring all the strength and that's the last thing we want is to be the hero of the story that we're not. Right. Well, part of that too is just as a Christ, or just as a like dad guilt's real, parent guilt is real. And I, I can
Jeff Zaugg (12:18.294)
really feel the moments that I missed or the things like those can really add up in my mind. But that redemptive thread of weakness has it has the ability to set me free from those things that can bind up my heart and cause me to add up the ways I didn't measure up as a father. Instead, it's reframed into I've been able to not just be strong for my kids, I have, but also to be weak and point them to my savior. So that's an ongoing process. I have plenty of
moments, I'm sure in the future we'll have to stare in the mirror and remind myself that. The deeper side of a factory approach to a field approach, the agricultural, the slow, the growing. Can you just set up a little bit of the contrast of the two approaches and how it might connect with fatherhood? sure. Yeah. We do live in a mechanical age and we think mechanically. That's why we say, if it's broken, fix it.
That's why we even have programs in the church. You know, we we think very mechanically, but those metaphors didn't exist at all. We don't see them in scripture. And so in scripture we see like plant a seed, wait, nurture, wait, go to sleep. Something's still happening. Nurture. So these agricultural metaphors have reframed for me, my faith. But yeah, I think they also reframed parenting. Like, and so here's
It's one way of looking at it. think we're all aware of the issues our family have families have. if we think from a mechanical lens, we think, OK, there's brokenness here and it needs to be fixed. Well, that language puts the pressure on you. It's about the outcome, not about the process. I mean, you can go down the list. But what's so freeing is saying our families aren't
broken and need a fixing, they are gardens in need of nurturing. So what does it look like to look at your family as less like something that's not working right, that you have to figure out a better way to do it to make it work right? Instead going, is growing? It doesn't matter how big it is. doesn't matter how like,
Jeff Zaugg (14:40.258)
What's something in your family, it can be even really small, what have you noticed in your children, your spouse that's beautiful, or in your family culture that you can go, what little actions can I do daily, weekly, monthly, can we do to come alongside that and nurture it over time? It's a longer view of family life. It also lifts the burden of having to fix.
It anchors you in a long obedience in the same direction, a long term way of looking at spiritual formation, not just as an individual, but as a family. that's where you start going. What rhythms, what traditions, what questions do we ask, do we return to that can actually nurture the things we want to grow in our family? And then you can ask the opposite. What do we want to starve? Like what needs to die?
And instead of going like, sometimes feeling the pressure to have to even figure that out, that can be a process too. Things in our family lives that aren't good didn't make their way there overnight. And it might take some time to starve, whatever that is, and see a new story told. anyway, I don't know if. That's good. Yeah, it's been.
It's been life transforming for me, looking through agricultural lens. To me, there's a freedom in, there's a control approach, which it needs to look like this. My family, my four little girls in this phase, we feel behind, or it should be like this. And there's such freedom when you say, I'm swimming in a stream of factory, mechanical.
digital, like all of this is all so new. All of this, like, if I'm in that stream, I'm gonna naturally bring that into my family thinking. And I'm gonna try to control an outcome, or I'm gonna try to produce better results or make things more efficient and see how many things I can stack and work in the schedule and system strategize versus if I could just remember the long view. If I can just remember.
Jeff Zaugg (17:01.454)
There's nothing seen for many months often when you plant something. Yeah, right, yes. It's hidden under the soil. But something's happening. Yeah. And that kind of trust, OK, you brought up a good word, control. Like controlling outcomes, like we live in a world that's about control. But I think any of us, if we look back on parenting, how often has our controlling measures actually yielded?
It can change behavior, but it cannot change a heart. And then also speed. So one of the ways we're seeing this right now is, so Ava and Sophie just graduated. their big question is, what are you doing next year? What are you doing next year? And there's a natural pressure in our culture. And some people know right away, great, that's awesome. There's just natural pressure. You actually gotta figure out life right away. Everybody's asking, what do you do?
But from an agricultural standpoint, we can slow down. Like you actually don't need to figure it out. We encourage them, take a gap year. Don't give into the pressure that surrounds us in society. Like you can rush towards something. And I don't know very much that good that comes out of rushing. And so you pace yourself and you move at a little bit of a slower pace.
I at least in my experience so far, you actually end up saving time and heartache way down the road. But again, the years will teach you what the days will never know. I say that as a 45-year-old guy. There's some people probably listening know that way deeper than I do as they're decades older. Yeah, what a gift to like, I'm not behind. Actually, slow is like a gift.
and slow can be like the discernment season before, yeah, hustle is just so celebrated of like, let's go, let's go. There's a looking back at kind of ancient practices or ancient like, what happened when Jesus was walking the earth or what happened, like what did the early, I'm thinking about like the desert fathers, right? Like looking back a thousand years ago.
Jeff Zaugg (19:26.84)
things that we could learn as dads today. We began the conversation around prayer retreat and taking time away. You even referenced Jesus did that. So what else do you think maybe some dads are not, it's not a part of our daily practice or a yearly practice that maybe is just like waiting for us to bring into our families today that's more of an ancient practice. Does anything come to mind that you're seeing was common a thousand years ago or?
200 years ago and is not today. Anything top of mind around that? Yeah, one thing came to mind right away when you said that is sometimes it's not even adding a new practice. It's just re-envisioning what's already in our homes. So the table comes to mind. The table is actually an ancient fixture. Of course, in Jesus's day, they sat on the ground, not on chairs, most likely. Yeah, leaned in on the table.
But the table is already there. We are. It's in a sense a beautiful way to envision an altar sometimes. So, you know, my, my belief around this, I there's different beliefs that as followers of Jesus, when you break bread and when you drink together, that's a built into our daily rhythms as remembering Christ's body given for us and his blood shed for us. And so what would it look like to re-envision
your table is being really sacred space. Like how much more often would families eat and be together around a table? There's so much magic that happens there and chaos, but the chaos is over time binding as well. And I find even the simple prayer of, Lord, as we eat, thank you for your body that was given for us and your blood that was shed for us. Over time, again, like,
Is that gonna do anything in a moment with a child? Maybe, maybe, but they might not even take it in, but it's funny having teenagers moving into adult years. They talk often about how many meals we've had around the table and they carry that with them. We haven't always done a good job at that, but.
Jeff Zaugg (21:46.168)
But again, it's really not about performance. It's just about like in the midst of family chaos, how can we re-envision what's sometimes what's already there? So for me, the table has been a rich one of having communion right in our home, right in the middle of sibling rivalries and, you know, who's going to do the dishes right in the middle of all of that. We can experience the sacredness of God's gift, you know, not just in a holy moment.
on a weekend where the music's just right. No, that's it. Okay, we talked prayer retreats, the table, we talked about a slower, long faith, like the agricultural versus the flip a switch, mechanical. Anything else come to mind of drawing on ancient practices into fatherhood today? Here's what comes to mind when you say that, singing together. I was on a retreat.
years ago with a group of friends in a home in Vancouver and our kids were still pretty young and the family whose house we were staying in, they gathered us all together and they sang the doxology. the mom said, we just, we always do this as our prayer. And, and I noticed a little bit of shift. We've always had music in our home.
But there's something about singing together that roots truths in your heart, and that is as ancient as it gets. So singing together has been a big one. We have this song we would sing before bed every night, and I still bring them all into our room. Usually we gather in one of the rooms, but once in a while I do it now, and they're like, Dad, they're so old. And we would sing, good night, family.
Sleep tight family, God gave you to me and we are a special family. And so like you sing that over a decade and something just gets rooted in your heart. And we would, started singing the doxology and you mentioned earlier that you're at the graduation party moment that your twins that they felt.
Jeff Zaugg (24:08.59)
When it was all over, they felt seen, known, and celebrated. I think those are the three that you mentioned. And just this, we want, as dads, our children to be seen, to know their father sees them. They're seen, they're known, and they're celebrated. Love to hear you just kind of riff on why those three things are so important. Yeah, well, no doubt you've experienced this, people.
talk about the teenage years and they kind of create a negative view on what it will be. And I just refuse to believe that. it is going to take a different amount of emotional energy than when they were little. That took more physical energy. But I think what I have been discovering is that learning how to delight in your children
when they're in one of the messiest, most complicated, even reframing their extreme emotions or venting is actually being a gift because you're their safe place. And learning how to practice, again, nurture. All of us have rough moments where we react instead of respond, no doubt. But nurturing over time the practice of delighting in them at those ages, even in their worst moments.
and seeing them is, I think, one of the most life-changing gifts we can give to a teenager specifically. Now, when you are involved, I truly believe in the local church and what it means to have a community beyond mom and dad. When you start having big brothers and sisters to your kids, spiritual moms and dads to your kids,
doing the same thing. I think the impact is exponential. And so for example, their grad party, they had all sorts of people they wanted to invite. Stephanie and I had our list too. And, and many of the people they invited, of course, are going to delight in them and love them. But there are some spiritual parents and grandparents. We don't have a lot of immediate family that live here. But that's okay. Like that's what the church is. It is our immediate family. So
Jeff Zaugg (26:33.87)
So we made sure that there were some of those grandmas and grandmas, spiritual grandmas, grandpas, moms and dads who were there. so I'd love to just hop in there on how are those grown? Because you know, our family's a year and half ago moved and we are growing friendships. We pray for our girls to have friendships in us as a couple. But when you think about like growing spiritual aunts, uncles, moms, dads, mentors.
What are some of the things you would encourage around growing those? Yeah, well, some of that when it comes so we live in Twin City area, we moved here in 2020. So I'll just speak from that vantage point. We entered into this season. I'm stepping in to serve a church family as their pastor. So, so of course, you automatically think it's a leadership role.
But what I didn't realize is that we would actually hit a very real place of weakness when we came here. Not just from a sickness my wife went through, but one of my daughters had, yeah, went through some real deep sickness. One is still going through some real deep sickness. the reason why I bring that up is not just because of their sickness, also teenagers in general also
stepping in in a season of COVID and trying to get to know people. It's all so hard. What I've found is that the struggle produced the spiritual family. Much of it's born through weakness. So I'd say if you're in a, if you're on a, you know, a mountain top or a time of life that feels like you're strong, you're probably weaker than you think. And when you're in the valley, you probably, there's probably more strength than you think, but it's not often found in yourself.
You discover that it's found in the Lord and found in your community. So, so I would encourage people to invite people into their weakness and, and, and be picky who you invite into that weakness. you know, look for a spiritual maturity and, often those individuals will be tethered to your heart and family is less of an organizational structure and more of a heart tethering.
Jeff Zaugg (28:57.762)
So, wow, I'm picturing some dads who I know and love who are in that place of, they're at the moment of weakness and desperation and or of loss, recent loss. Your testimony of your wife Stephanie's healing is...
Testimonies ignite faith in ways that nothing else does. Would you share just maybe the shorter version, but of what happened? Sure. Yeah. gosh. So 2020, we moved here, November of 2020. It's like, how do you make friends in COVID? It's just such an awkward time to step into a new church family. And then, and I'm feeling lonely.
you know, our family's trying to figure it out. then March, March 12th, that was my birthday. I had received the gift of covid, but didn't know it. And that night we're having a movie night and I'm a physical guy. I'm like hanging out with my family, put my arm around. I gave them all covid basically. But my wife, because of some other issues she's carrying, like covid turned into something way bigger, got into the lining of her heart and to her brain. Long covid.
And she ended up really barely getting out of bed over the course of seven, eight months, something like that. She even got to a place where she's like, if this intimacy went away, I don't know if I want to be healed, which is sounds really weird. But when she named that, that was actually the week that she was healed. So what happened was, again, we had prayed hundreds of times, but she was in the sunroom off of our kitchen.
and she tried to get up to go into the kitchen. I think she was going to back, lay back down. The phone rang and it was a friend of ours, just a feisty missionary friend from Argentina. And she's like, Stephanie, how come you didn't tell me what's going on? You know, she heard through the grapevine and a wonderful woman. Anyway, she just started praying the same prayers we prayed for months over the phone, over the phone. her name's Sherry. just in
Jeff Zaugg (31:20.172)
wonderful Sherry style. She said, OK, I got to go. And she hung up the phone and Steph left there after the prayers and she began to feel her body shifting. Not like a extreme way. She just began to feel her body beginning to change. And she also started to question it like she's by herself. And Sherry got off the phone and within three minutes there was a knock on the door. And it's one of our pastors here. Her name's Rose.
She was driving to church and she sensed the Lord telling her to turn around and go to our house. Unexpected. Just head your house. And Steph's moment of vulnerability of wondering, is something shifting in my body? The questioning that can happen there, Rose, who's a very faithful person, stepped right into that moment. And Steph was able to make it to the door, open the door, and she told Rose, I think my body's being healed. And they both started laughing.
Steph hadn't belly laughed up to that point for months. She couldn't. So they spent about another hour praying together. And how Steph explains it is she would get these like contractions, pain that would rush to her chest and then it would release, rush to her chest and release. At the same time, trauma from her past would come up in her mind and release. And this sense that God was healing more than just her body. I didn't know any of this was happening. I'm just hanging out here at the church building.
I get a call and when I get the call Steph says, I think I'm healed. And I just was kind of quiet. Like, what are you? Yeah, you have little faith. What are you talking about? By the time I got home that day, I left right away. I opened the door, she was dancing. We went out to eat that night for the first time in eight months. We went grocery shopping. She was so excited. No one's ever excited about that, but she was excited about that. of the house, in the grocery store.
Yeah. And her body was so worn down from being sick that we realized the next day, like we got to slow down. too soon. But we, came into our staff meeting the next day and people hadn't seen her up for eight months and just tears and laughter and worship. And then our 75 year anniversary as a church was that weekend. And so it was like the, the, most beautiful expression of God's goodness was that weekend as my wife walked in and everyone
Jeff Zaugg (33:44.942)
could they knew before she even opened up her mouth and shared her story. She shared her story and something shook loose in the heart of the church that day. And then since then, one of my daughters was diagnosed with a chronic disease. And so here's the struggle. God healed her mom. And so what about her? And she's in the process and she loves Jesus.
And through the struggle, her faith is deepening as it does many times through the struggle. so healing such an interesting thing, it's not a science. It's not us leading God and saying, go over here and do this. It's us just lifting up the sails and saying, God, will you blow your wind? And I hope you do in my timing, but we're starting to see some breakthrough in Ava, but yeah.
So I think I just say that because people who are listening to this podcast, sometimes testimonies can be profoundly faith building and sometimes they can put a magnifying glass on what God hasn't done for us yet. the both and can exist together. Your faith can grow while you're grappling with the questions you don't have answered. And in a sense, it's welcome to the mystery of us actually having a God and not being the God of God.
So yeah, so we're still in the struggle, but we've experienced some miracles along the way for sure. And other miracles in our life as well. Thank you. Yeah, man. That was a long version. No, no, no. I'm just thinking back to dad's being strong and how the strength often doesn't lead to deep intimacy or connection. Like strength and having, even to hold with our own strength, but also like the absolute
to a devastating level for your wife, the deepest intimacy and the treasuring God more than maybe she ever has in her life. how there's so much, the valley, there's so much beauty and so much good, but we don't want it. my gosh, I know. I have looked back at life so many times and said, I'm so glad I went through that, but I never want to go through that again.
Jeff Zaugg (36:03.99)
Or I look at my kids and go, I want them to be overcomers. I just don't want them to overcome anything. Or I want to pick the things that they overcome. But the path to overcoming, you want to live a redeemed life. You need something that needs to be redeemed. These words don't exist without something that is dark. I hear you. It's a.
Sometimes I have words with God, like, why do some of the most beautiful treasures come from the darkest valleys? can't like, why can't it be like swimming in the ocean or eating barbecue that yields some of the deepest treasures? does it have to be sickness and pain and Yeah. And again, that's not all of life. think there is. Yeah. I don't want to frame it all that way, but it does yield some of the deepest treasures. Yeah. You're just picturing your oldest.
Your oldest two, like they were 14 at this moment. Your wife was four years ago about how it will mark your kids forever. There's no one who saw with closer lens, those eight, nine, 10 months. Yet it marked them forever, but now there's still the trusting in a like for Eva. And maybe we end here in a moment. I'll have you pray over the dads listening and for me, but the
Like the question of a dad listening right now saying, I'm in the not yet, trusting God it's not yet. What else would, any other just encouragement or, we love challenges at Dad Awesome. We love like challenge, even though they're in the, there's probably in a place of pain if they're in the not yet, like what would you want to deposit or challenge or encourage us with before you pray over us?
to keep, use the word, not rescue, use the word, to go off to a cabin and pray. You called it an escape. Is there any just things you'd want to share to help us not be frozen in that moment? Yeah, what comes to my mind right away is isolation puts a magnifying glass on pain and us guys,
Jeff Zaugg (38:26.318)
Some of us are professional isolators. We internalize and one of the most important gifts we can give ourselves is by breaking out of isolation and getting more than one guy welcoming into your deepest struggle a few guys is, I just think, one of the most profound ways
to have the Holy Spirit, I think, works through relationship like, yes, we want to spend time with God, but spending time with God while you're experiencing isolation everywhere else can actually create even a distorted outlook on God. We are meant to be in community with other people and we need brothers in Christ. So breaking out of isolation and, mean, the old saying, the only way out is through, but you don't have to go through alone.
And I think traveling with companions is a profound kingdom tool for nurturing hope. I have a friend going through something really hard. Many times I tell them what I want them to tell me. Like, I'm going to be the annoying friend that tells you things you know you already know deep down inside. But I'm going to be that annoying friend because we lose sight. We lose perspective.
And remember, as one of the most frequent commandments in scripture, we forget. So we need brothers. that would be, to me, that's the church. Welcome people in to what's going on. And I have some newer friends that in the last three weeks have shared some, I had no idea what they've walked through these past few months or few years. And I felt like I was given a
It wasn't a burden to me because they trusted me to enter their grief, their loss. And I mean, the emotion didn't make sense because I just have not been deeply connected with these families. But when they were willing to share and trust me with, I felt like now I'm to get to share in also the victory, the testimony from, because they're not going to stay here. So just to get rid of that lie that some guys are like, but.
Jeff Zaugg (40:51.246)
I don't want to be a bird in. It's a lie. That is a lie. mean, it is a joy to be able to be welcomed into that space. And then now, when they're walking through something, that door is open for them to welcome you in. And it becomes a multiplication of relational equity, but back and forth. But you said earlier, be picky. Be picky when it came to like,
those mentors, those spiritual parents for your kid. Be picky on the brotherhood as well. can be picky. No one perfect. Yeah, and if you're married, ask, I love those deep relationships. Stephanie just speaking, what are you seeing? I really see a potential strong relationship with this guy. Man, it's a profound thing when she's like,
me too. Affirm. You should pursue that. Yeah. You know, and what a cool partnership that your spouse gets to be a part of you opening up that door to even other guys. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Would you, uh, would you pray over all the dads listening? Oh, so here we are, God. And I, I know I probably can assume a lot, uh, as far as the situations and experiences that
Even the guys listening are in, but I can't see it. I don't know them, but you see and know us all. And we just thank you that in a world that dehumanizes us, God, see us, that dehumanizes people. You see us so deeply. Will you show us the path of life in the chaos of this world?
Will you nurture in us a non-anxious soul in an anxious world? Will you conquer some of the guilt and shame that so plague and hold us men just bound up? God, like that is not of you. And that does not have to be the story of any of us moving forward. We just pray for your freedom, even through this podcast, to start making its way into our hearts, defeating guilt and shame.
Jeff Zaugg (43:17.504)
Will you give us the courage to open up, to open up to you who already sees us so deeply, but also give us a vision for other men we can welcome into our story so we don't have to walk alone. We love you, God. with this whole podcast, may your kingdom come, your will be done on earth in the earth you've put under our feet as it is in heaven. In Jesus' amen.
Jeff Zaugg (43:48.686)
Thank you so much for joining us for episode 391 with Dave Bricky. I wanna remind you guys, our Dad Awesome Accelerator cohorts, these two groups launching this fall, they're likely gonna fill up fast. I wanna send you guys to dadawesome.org slash coaching to learn and to apply to be a part of one of the next groups of 10 dads kicking off this fall. Hey, the show notes for today's conversation, links to, actually there's a specific message from Dave Bricky on this idea
of Machines to Gardens, the framework around family, and he actually describes the framework of a church being a machine or a garden. I think it could be really transformational. So I'm gonna send you that message in the show notes, along with the quotes, the transcript, the links, and just encouragement around kind of our top takeaways. We pray every week that we will be dads with a bias towards action. So I'm praying for you guys. Take the step to hop into the show notes and skim through and pray through and say, God,
the step for me. Praying for you guys this week. Thank you for being Dad Awesome.
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"My strength points my kids to me as their savior, but my weakness points them to who my savior is."
"Our families aren't broken and need fixing—they are gardens in need of nurturing."
"The beauty of parenting is marked more by weakness than strength. No one has a bird's eye view into the messiness of someone's life other than a spouse and children—they see it all."
"You can change behavior through control, but you cannot change a heart."
"Isolation puts a magnifying glass on pain, and us guys—some of us are professional isolators."
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