390 | State of Biblical Fatherhood, Foster Care Wisdom, and Preparing Arrows for Battle (Josh Kubler)
Episode Description
What does it really look like to prepare our children for the spiritual battles ahead? In this episode, Josh Kubler from Manhood Journey shares eye-opening insights from their massive survey of 6,000 Christian fathers—and the results might surprise you. Plus, he opens up about his family's foster care and adoption journey, the sanctifying power of stewardship over ownership, and why viewing our children as "arrows in the hand of a warrior" changes everything about our parenting approach.
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Josh Kubler is the Director of Church Engagement for Manhood Journey and one of the founding pastors of Redeemer Baptist Church in Olive Branch, Mississippi. Josh and his wife Katie have five children, including two daughters adopted through foster care. He's passionate about equipping fathers and churches to raise the next generation for God's glory. Fun fact: Josh grew up with some unique pets—including three cougars, a wolf, and two skunks!
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📖 Only 22% of Christian fathers regularly read their Bible with their children—but that's not a defeating number, it's an opportunity for intentional growth.
🏠 Foster care taught one powerful lesson: we're stewards, not owners, of ALL our children—biological or adopted.
🚁 Instead of helicopter or submarine parenting, find the middle ground that cultivates independence and decision-making in your kids.
👀 Your children know what's truly important to you—they can tell if baseball matters more than church or if stress matters more than presence.
💪 The goal isn't perfection; it's purposefulness. When we fail, we apologize, model humility, and show our kids we need Jesus too.
🎯 If our target is anything other than our children loving God, enjoying Him, and bringing Him glory, we're aiming at the wrong target.
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Learn about the next DadAwesome Accelerator Cohort
Subscribe to DadAwesome Messages: Text the word "Dad" to (651) 370-8618
Fatherhood Report: https://manhoodjourney.org/state-of-biblical-fatherhood
Manhood Journey Resources: https://manhoodjourney.org
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Am I praying with them enough? Am I reading the Bible with them? Am I pouring into them the truth of the scripture? Am I directing them to Jesus? Am I shepherding them well? What are these specific tasks and steps that I can take to best prepare my children so that when that day comes, I can smile and I can draw and I can fire and I can say, I trust you Lord and what's to come.
Jeff Zaugg (01:05.656)
This is episode 390 of Dad Awesome. Guys, welcome. My name is Jeff Zog, and we're at the 10-week countdown up till episode 400, and got some fun things coming for you guys. But today, we wanted to announce, just celebrate with the ministry, Manhood Journeys. We've had Kent Evans on, I think twice, he's been a guest. But Manhood Journey just released the State of Biblical Fatherhood, report.
interviewing over 6,000 Christian dads, and they developed this highly visual, quick to kind of skim and read key findings that they found. So we want to feature this report today on episode 390, and we're doing that by interviewing Josh Kubler. So Josh works for Manhood Journey, specifically helps them with church expansion, partnering with local churches, sharing their resources, and I interviewed Josh today, so.
We'll tee up that conversation in just a second here, but want a quick highlight as we head towards the fall and as we launch episode 400 and the books coming out this fall and lots of other exciting things. We've graduated four rounds of the Dad Awesome Accelerator, four cohorts, and we have two upcoming groups that we're launching this fall. One in late September and the other one launching in early November. So in early fall, late fall, two cohorts.
adding each each group has around 10 dads will join us. And I want to just send you guys to dadawesome.org slash coaching dadawesome.org slash coaching. You can express interest, you can apply, you can learn more. We have now a page on our website that really captures the dad awesome accelerator experience. So want to cheer you guys on to explore joining us. We love.
this six week journey. It's a six week sprint of everything we've learned in nearly eight years of Dad Awesome. So I want to make sure to send you guys to learn more about joining a future Dad Awesome Accelerator cohort. Okay, back to the conversation. I'm going to actually introduce Josh Kubler in the conversation. So this is episode 390. So glad you're listening. Make sure before the end of the podcast, you hop to the show notes and download the State of Biblical Fatherhood Report for Manhood Journey.
Jeff Zaugg (03:26.926)
This is episode 390 with Josh Kubler.
Jeff Zaugg (03:42.35)
with a fact check. Yeah, it's a little bit of introducing you at fact check a little bit. So five kids, married 15 years. Is that right? 16 16, yes. It's my research. congrats. And then you're in Mississippi. North Mississippi, just outside of Memphis, Tennessee. Sweet. Church planter, church, you're a pastor, you serve the church with your role with Manhood Journey and church engagement, helping churches launch, fatherhood ministries, use your resources.
And let's see, did I, foster dad, foster parents, and then adoptive dad, you've adopted two daughters. Do I have that right? Two daughters out of foster care, yep. That's right. Through the process of fostering. first. Yes. Okay, let's see, what other random.
Okay, we'll end there with the random fact check. Did I get most of that right or? That's right, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think all of it's right. Sounds good, yeah. Josh, what would you just add a couple small things that maybe I would not be defined in preparing for our conversation? How else would you introduce yourself? let me think of something real quick that you wouldn't have been able to find on the internet. Okay. This is not necessarily applicable, but it is that people love random facts. When I was growing up, North Mississippi, again, interesting parents.
I had unique pets. We had three different cougars. We had a wolf. We had two different skunks, decented. Raccoons and then dogs, cats, pigs, horses, cows, all that other stuff too. yeah. Yeah. That was legal. Is this allowed in the state, in the county? Was this allowed or was it done secretly? It was allowed. It was funny because
I was probably six when we started getting these weird crazy exotic pets. And as I got older, it was like, they realized people were doing this. They were like, we need to put laws in place to make sure that these animals don't roam into other people's yards and neighborhoods and things. so like things got tighter and more strict the older I got in terms of like fencing and upkeep and all that stuff. yeah, yeah. I have so many questions from that lead in. mean,
Jeff Zaugg (05:52.94)
That's how it That's what happens. principles from being raised by a wolf and some panthers. Like what did you know about these animals that I would never know if they're looking through a fence at a zoo? Like what did you learn? Anything unique or wild? so it's strange because obviously like these things aren't going to be the same at your house as they are in the wild. Like they were raised in our house. Now they were still wild animals. if random people came over, like it was so funny. You know how your
Like if you have a dog, your dog knows when you pull up and they're excited and everything. So the same is true of a wolf. Like the wolf knew like the sound of our car pulling up, but if it was any other car, it would start howling as wolves do. And so like a UPS driver would pull up and get out of the truck and hear a wolf howling. And so we had constantly people terrified in our hat coming to our house because the first thing that they would hear when they opened their door was a howling wolf. And so, you know.
they were domesticated to a point, but also like, I couldn't just let my friends go into the cougar pen and play with the mountain lions. I could go in there a little bit, but also still gotta be careful, all that kind of stuff. I'm not sure what I learned other than my parents are very unique individuals. it was one of those things as growing up when I'm really little.
Like I told all my friends at school and that was really cool. And then as I got older, it became strange and weird. And so I didn't want to tell people. And then, you know, being an adult, I can tell people and they're like, this is fascinating. Let's talk about this the whole time. So, wow. Okay. Well, I want to talk about it the whole time, but let's do it. Let's go with this dad life application for a moment. So my, my daughters, we went to a thousand acre ranch, may have been multiple thousand acres. We were invited last minute in South Dakota while on an RV trip for the ministry.
There's this post church Sunday afternoon gathering, Chuck Wagon, the whole deal. And we didn't know anyone there. We roll in and the kids were like, well, what are the kids going to do? Cause there's a speaker and worship that was just, but all the kids had something going on. We just didn't know what, but we, we had a reference. We knew this family like kind of second hand and our kids were gone for like three hours and it got dark out and they come wandering back and our girls were like, dad, there were no rules and no fences. Okay.
Jeff Zaugg (08:12.396)
So what I'm, what I'm spring boarding into is wildness. said to use the term domesticated and I, like that does happen when an animal's raised indoors, they don't have the same roar as maybe the same howl. you're a wolf, but there's a, like, I want my girls in a God honoring way to have hearts for adventure and courage and believe that like, they don't have to follow, an instruction manual for their life. There's.
There's creativity, God's put that in them, go, explore, you can do it. What would you add on that theme? And how have you seen even some of that with your own kids as far as stirring up the wildness? So it's interesting, even when we were going through continuing foster care training, one of the things that a lot of studies have put forth is that the...
As parents have become more and more involved and invested and not necessarily in the positive way, but in the protective way, as we get more into like a helicopter parent kind of culture, we have seen negative impacts on children as a result of that. And so in part of our foster care ongoing training, we watched, it was some kind of Ted talk, but they were given all this information, all these statistics on the benefit of children going outside without parental supervision.
cultivates independence, how it helps with their decision making later on in life, like all these things. And all I could think about was going to the park and watching these parents who are watching their kid on the playground saying, don't do that, don't do that, no, don't go there, no. You know, just this constant hovering, worrying and over worrying about the kid. And certainly like, listen, I want my kids to be safe. You know, I don't want them to be severely injured, but there's such a huge benefit.
and allowing our children to explore and to roam and to grow. We've got some woods next to our house that don't belong to us. And have we heard gunshots in there at times? Maybe. But our children love to explore these woods. Now listen, we're gonna take safety precautions and make sure it's not hunting season, all that kind of thing. But our kids have made some of the greatest memories of their life by going in those woods and rambling around and finding
Jeff Zaugg (10:36.238)
skulls and finding turtle shells that have been emptied. know, I'll never forget a couple of years ago, some of our kids' cousins were over, they were staying with us. And I got home from work and my son came up and was like, hey, we found this barn. I was like, what do you mean? You found this barn? was like, we found this barn in the woods. I was like, oh, whatever. And the next day I get home and they're gone. And my wife says, yeah, they went to go find that barn again. And so I'm thinking like,
So I go into the woods to try to find them and I ended up walking way further than I would have expected until I come upon this barn that is right behind someone else's house, essentially. And they have not only explored the barn, but they've taken all this like siding out of the, it's an old abandoned barn. is like nobody's using it, but they've taken all the siding out of the top of it and they've made like a go-kart track and they found a go-kart that was in the barn without an engine or anything. And they're like intending to.
used it on this go-kart ramp, literally 200 yards from somebody else's house. I'm like, guys, we have to leave now. We have to leave right now and clean up whatever this is. But again, it was good for them. Like aside from like, you know, the violation of someone else's property, it was good for them to experience this. they did all this. It was very creative. It was very interesting. It was very like, it helped them think through.
And then I got to help them think through, hey, what should we and shouldn't we do in a corrective sense, not yelling and screaming at them, but saying, hey guys, let's talk about this. Like what was okay about this and what was maybe not so okay about this. What can we learn from this and growing this? But man, it's something they never would have had the opportunity. They never would have made that memory. They never would have had that time with their cousins, all that stuff, if there hadn't been a freedom to explore a little, to be a little wild. And obviously like as with anything,
All of that, there's a spectrum, right? Like you don't want to be the, what I compare the opposite side of the coin for a helicopter parent is a submarine parent. And they only lift their periscope up every couple of days and like look around to make sure somebody's still there. And so you don't want to be a submarine parent as much as you don't want to be a helicopter parent. But somewhere in the middle there, there's something that helps to cultivate in your children independence and decision-making and.
Jeff Zaugg (12:57.81)
There's all kinds of things that go along with that, but it's helpful. It's helpful for your kids, helpful for us as parents to consider. Yeah, I love that. As I was thinking about today's conversation, just personally, I've had two things happen in the last 48 hours that I thought I would just ask you for advice on. the first was three or four hours ago. Yeah, this is a dad asking another dad for help here, help me process this out. I won't go deep into therapy as far as all the things I'm struggling with, but a couple of things. One, my six-year-old.
pulled me aside, I kind of just mentioned this as we were loading up the minivan today. She said, dad, you're a lot more calm today than you were yesterday. And they had camp and I was not calm in helping them get out the door. I was feeling late. was the driver yesterday. I wasn't the driver today, but you know, we had a little more lead time. Things were, I'm trying to still figure out what was different in my heart yesterday than it was today.
And my daughter is so gracious. The fact that she points out the positive instead of saying you were horrible yesterday, you were the opposite of a non-anxious presence. You were bringing all kinds of anxiety and frustration and stressfulness and sharpness. She pointed out instead, she said, you're a lot calmer today than you were yesterday. What would be your take on or just like process out loud with me, like how me and other dads listening that feel that same tension might carry some
more steadiness versus the roller coaster. One of the things that I hate to hear from my kids, but I need to hear from my kids is they'll come up to me and they'll say, dad, I'm sorry you're so stressed right now. I'm like, all right. All right. I get what you're saying. I'm like, I'm not stressed. And then like, okay, maybe I'm a little stressed. Defensive dad comes up. Yeah, exactly. It's the same thing of what you're saying. It's like, I'm trying to get everything together. I'm trying to get them.
breakfast so I can get out the door and all those things or piling up, whatever the case may be. I think one of the things that I've wrestled with the most as a parent, one of the things that God has shown me is such a big idol in my life is control. That I think that my life should be regimented based on how I expect things to go and what I anticipate my schedule should be and
Jeff Zaugg (15:22.562)
what the interruption should or shouldn't be and the delays and everything else. And that's one of the things that God is continually convicting me of. And it happens literally everything, something, every time something doesn't go as I anticipate that it should or think that it should. Every time my expectation is not met, the Lord is saying, hey, you're not actually in control. You've never been in control. It's always been me and it's better that way.
and so I, what I try to do, and I, and I fail at this Jeff more often than I would like to admit, so probably every day, is what I'm trying to do is rest in the fact that I'm not in control, but that God is, and that is so much better than if I were. And so the minutia, like the little delays, the little annoyances.
the little things I had to do for my kids or I could do the drive me nuts or whatever the case may be, the spilled milk, like all those things, like those are so, so minuscule in the long-term, in the broad view, the macro of everything of my life. And instead of being consumed in the moment, and this is like, this is one of the big parenting things is that we are so consumed by the moment.
that we lose sight of the long game or we don't have that in consideration. And I'm trying to cultivate in my life and in my heart this understanding of the long game of parenting. That how I react in this moment is actually way more important than what I'm reacting to. And that's not easy. Like I'm not sitting here saying that I have accomplished that and arrived, but it's
It is an understanding that I think will which brought me to that I'm trying to get better at. So I don't know if that helps your situation, but that's immediately what I think of when you bring that up. Yeah. And I'm actually even processing in my mind, I'm thinking as you're explaining of like the extra 30 seconds to get down on their level, look them right in the eyes and help coach versus bark. It's almost like the difference, like the calm coach in the sidelines who pulls in for a huddle versus.
Jeff Zaugg (17:44.44)
the dad in the stands just screaming or the mom is just screaming. Like if I could even use that metaphor a little bit of, I know I have those extra 30 seconds to pull a huddle or to pull together and then launch back into, okay, now there's progress. We're gonna move with progress towards. Well, here's the other thing that popped into my heart with today's conversation because I know that you had a journey of foster care and then adoption is just,
Two days ago, got to pray with a couple who are just in the first steps of entering, being foster parents. And I was learning from them on the fly there, still new to the process. And I just thought for any dad who's praying about this journey, what are some things, and we've highlighted maybe a handful of times before, but it's been a little while, like what have you learned and how would you coach us around this journey, the need, the...
the process, what you've learned as a family. yeah, I'd just love to hear a little bit of your heart on foster care. Yeah. So the first thing that I tell people is that not, I think that we need to acknowledge and we need to express that not everyone is called to adoption, but everyone who is a follower of Jesus is called to care for the orphan.
And so that looks different in different ways. Like there's all kinds of different ways to do that, whether that be sponsoring a child, whether it be helping a family that's going through the adoption process or whether that means fostering or whatever. Like there's, there's dozens and dozens of ways to do that. but, but we are called to care for the orphan and the widow. and, so the first thing I would say is that, is that brain through and talking with your spouse through what does this calling look like for us? Like, what is the way that we can faithfully.
accept this call and embrace it and do what the Lord is asking us to do. And that looks different for different families. And by God's grace, many have accepted that call as, need to adopt, we should adopt, the Lord is asking us to do this and pressing upon us to do that. And that's wonderful. The thing that I've learned in that, think I've learned a lot, Jeff, as you can imagine, there's,
Jeff Zaugg (20:07.18)
The most sanctifying thing in my life has been being married. Then the second most sanctifying thing has been having kids. so for me, another on that list has been going through the foster care and adoption process. And so foster care is unique in contrast to adoption because oftentimes with foster care, you're caring for children that have a family.
They have a biological family that for whatever reason cannot care for them according to the state. And there's a tendency, there can be a tendency among people because they love so much and they get so connected to get into an us versus them mentality and to pit, you know, your own family against this family that you think isn't fit or shouldn't be able to, or whatever the case may be.
So one of the things that the Lord really worked on our hearts, or through our hearts on, is recognizing the value and the image of God in every person. And so these families were not, we weren't against them. It wasn't us versus them. It was us being the ones the Lord had impressed upon to care for these children.
for whatever, we had to embrace the reality that these girls were gonna be in our home for as long as the Lord wanted, not what we wanted. And that was hard, honestly, that was one of the reasons that we didn't do fostering sooner. We tried to go the private adoption route for years and the Lord kept closing doors. And we had some friends that had done foster care and fostered to adopt and we talked through it, prayed through it and just decided like, there's a great need here.
This is something we've been called to do. even we came to the point of even if this does not mean adoption, even if this child does not remain with us forever, this is faithful in regards to what God's calling us to do. And so, and that was a hard thing to come to. Because to be frank, as an adoptive parent, I'm allowed to say this, sometimes adoptive parents don't have the greatest motives. Sometimes it is about adding a child to your home.
Jeff Zaugg (22:31.47)
more than anything else. And so it was a hard thing to come to and it wasn't through our own goodness that we arrived at. It was the Lord working through us. And so I think we learned a lot about the fact that as parents, just in general, all parents, we're stewards. We're not owners. Like our kids aren't ours.
They ultimately are the Lord's and He has entrusted us to steward them, to care for them, to raise them, to protect them, to shepherd them, all these things. And whether that be a child that my wife carried for nine months or that be a child that came into my home through foster care or through adoption, ultimately, I'm a steward of all of them and in the same way, and I'm gonna love them all in the same way.
and we're going to trust God with them all in the same way. And so I think it was so helpful for us in the Lord helping us to understand that idea of stewardship of our family. And yeah, I mean, there's tons of other stuff I to but I think that's one of the greatest things that the Lord's taught me. Is there any advice you would give to parents with other kids, and they're entering the process to coach and help these siblings?
and learn about stewardship and about loving with their whole hearts, yet knowing there might be loss in that the child goes back to their birth parents. Any just like guidance around that topic? Yeah, so our kids were, let's see, I'm trying to think. Let me do math real quick. Our kids were five or six and five, three,
and one issue. Yeah, when we started. I mean, the older two could still understand. And so we talked a lot about the fact that any child that comes into our home, we're going to treat them like they're part of our family. And we're going to love them the same. We're going to discipline them. We're going to...
Jeff Zaugg (24:48.984)
You know, they're to get the same things we get. They're going to get the same things you get. They're going to be, as long as they're here, they're going to be your brother or your sister. And, you know, there's been hiccups to that along the way. But, you know, one of the things that I'm so grateful for is the way that God has grown my own kids. they, they truly do not see our two youngest daughters as any sort of different in terms of being a member of the family.
They are as much a sibling and that means that they fight as much and they bicker as much and everything else. you know, it doesn't change the personalities. But in terms of their expectations and, you know, who's deserving or worthy or whatever, like all those things, they view them as their siblings. And, you know, I pray that that doesn't change as they get older. I hope it won't. I hope it's so ingrained in them and cultivated in them so much. That's the reality. Now, you know, there's another
another little hurdle in the fact that one of our daughters is black. And so, you know, there's an obvious difference in appearance with everybody else. But we have also tried to ensure that our other kids understand that there are some realities that come along with this. That she, it's likely that she will always feel a little different.
and a little out of place, even though we will do everything in our power to ensure that's not the case. There's just a cultural reality there. And so we want to make sure that just as much as we would do this for anybody, but certainly in her case, that we are never doing or saying or acting in such a way that would amplify that or make her feel like that comes from within. It may come from without, but we don't ever want that to come from within.
And that doesn't mean we're going to be perfect in that, but we want to be aware of that and do everything that we can in our power to try and ensure that. Thank you. It's really helpful. And yeah, there's many, many other follow-up questions on that topic, but I want to just pan out for a moment to broader fatherhood discoveries. And I just returned from a trip to Minnesota for a few weeks and hosted a number of campfire gatherings. We just went around and shared.
Jeff Zaugg (27:14.712)
Like are you discovering? Because when we have a lens of we're looking for new wisdom, a new rhythm, a new tactic tool, like we just wanna be growing as dads, right? We wanna be growing versus I've settled, I have what I have and that's all I can give. No, look, we can always be learning, always be making new discoveries. Can you think in the past few months, just this like kind of spring into early summer season?
Any new discoveries that you're like, hey, this is helpful for me, my wife, our five kids. Any discoveries that come top of mind? Yeah. So I'm always evaluating my perspective of parenting. And one of the things that I've really been thinking through, I did some teaching at our church not too long ago. was thinking through this idea of Psalm 127. It says that
children are like arrows in the hand of a warrior. And I think there's a lot of things to glean from that. But I think it's important to recognize that it's not, it doesn't say that they're arrows in the hands of an athlete or a philosopher or a merchant. It's very specific that they're arrows in the hand of a warrior. And there's a lot of implications that come with that. And I think that
that we know that the world certainly is broken and there's dangers in it. And we know that one day our kids are gonna go out into it, like outside of our protection. And there's typically two kinds of parents. There are the parents that are like, oh, my kids are gonna leave my house one day, I can't wait. Like I cannot wait to get my freedom, whatever. And then there's the other kind that's like,
Oh, I dread that day. don't want to see them leave. mean, I know we may still have a relationship, but it's not going to be the same, you know? And I think the scripture in numerous places, but certainly even there, gives us this idea that we have an opportunity not to dread this and not to celebrate it, but to have the opportunity to instead of watch them leave, to joyfully send them. And so what that means is like,
Jeff Zaugg (29:33.762)
Okay, what are we doing to prepare for that? Like what is the aim of our parenting? If they are the arrows, what are we aiming for? And I think there's been times in my life, certainly where I have aimed for like moral excellence. I want them to be well-behaved. I want other people to look at them and think those are good kids, you all this stuff, right? There's plenty of parents that are aiming for, you know, for financial security. Like they want their kids to...
to excel in school so they can go to good college, get a good job, not have to worry about living paycheck to paycheck or whatever the case may be. There's all kinds of different things that we tend to aim for. There's something that we can sit back with our spouse at the end of the day, like when they leave and say, we did it. What is that thing, that goal, that aim that we have?
And my argument would be that if our target is anything other than our children loving God, enjoying him and bringing him glory, then we're aiming at the wrong target. so what I've been working through is like, if that's the goal, if that's the aim, if I'm a warrior who's got all these arrows in my quiver, what am I doing to prepare them to send them out? How am I preparing them?
faithfully, because we are sending them into a battle. It's not necessarily we're sending with the US Army, but we're sending them into, as Paul says, this battle against powers and principalities and the present darkness. Again, there is this illusion of control that we have now, but that illusion of control will be gone for them altogether, and that reality will seep in. so what are we doing now, even when they're...
six, eight, 10, whatever, to prepare them to send them out one day. And so that's the thing that I've been wrestling with, that like, okay, am I praying with them enough? Am I reading the Bible with them? Am I pouring into them the truth of the scripture? Am I directing them to Jesus? Am I shepherding them well? Am I like, what are these things? What are the steps, the specific tasks and steps that I can take?
Jeff Zaugg (31:59.192)
to best prepare my children so that one day, when that day comes, I can smile and I can draw and I can fire and I can say, I trust you Lord in what's to come. And that's eye-opening and that's challenging and it's hard and it makes us reevaluate how we spend our time and what we're valuing and all these different things. But I think it's a worthwhile endeavor.
So that's what God's really been working on me on even recently. Josh, there's a, mean, in that topic, there's a kind of a compass direction of like, man, this has to be it. It's like at a value level or a culture level. And then there's like a couple levels below that of what does your Tuesday look like? What does your Friday look like? What does your dinner table look like? What is your before bedtime? Are there just, you don't have to hit the whole strategy or maybe it's still being, for all of us, it's still being fleshed out, but are there any?
little micro discoveries of like, this is a bit of the building block that gets us in that direction. Anything that's consistent right now? Yeah. So I think about, there's a pastor named David Mathis who wrote a book on spiritual disciplines and he kind of like, there's tons of spiritual disciplines, right? But he boiled it down to three. He says like, really, these are the three primary building blocks. He says the word, prayer and fellowship. And
And so we've tried to build into the rhythms and the habits of our life that we will focus on the word, on prayer, and on fellowship. Like we want to cultivate in our kids a love for the word, a love for prayer, and a love for God's church. And so, you know, that does, that looks like, like we regularly go through a devotional while we eat dinner around the table. It's not every single night.
But a lot of nights, that's what we will pull out the book. We'll read a little passage from the scriptures. We ask some questions. We talk through it. We are regularly trying to help our kids see when they face, you know, when your kids are six or when they're 12 or when they're 16, you're going to deal with this in different ways, obviously. And so, you know, the application of this looks different for the six-year-old than the 16-year-old, but there's still a means by which you do that. And so,
Jeff Zaugg (34:23.938)
We're trying to impart the scriptures and write the scriptures on the hearts of our children as they're little so that as they're getting older, when they face specific struggles and hardships, and whatever the case may be, they'll have the reserve of that truth that they can draw upon. And there's times like, I tell guys all the time, there's gonna be a time where you're trying to finish up your family devotion over the dinner table.
and your kids are throwing food or they're burping or they're seeing whatever they can do to not pay attention to you and you're gonna end it by being like, everybody go to your room, I can't do this. And that doesn't mean that you stop doing it. Because like we talked about earlier, the whole long view of parenting, when we talk about spiritual investment in our children,
We've got to understand that just like anything else, like the return doesn't come the next day. It doesn't come in the moment. It doesn't come the next day, the next week, the next month. We're talking about years upon years of investing nickels and dimes and dollar bills and fives that within the hope that and the trust of the Lord that at some point in the future, there will be a yield from that. And that yield will be that child walking with Jesus.
Yes. And like, so my son, he's a believer, he's 12, he's my oldest. You we've done this with him the longest. We've had the most frustration with him because we've done it for the blog. But there's days where I'm like, you know, what have we even been doing? What's the point? Why we spend this time? And then there's days like a few months ago, we were driving home from his Wednesday night student Bible study. He was asking me a question about
somebody that doesn't come to the church, should the rest of their family comes. And he said, why, you know, why don't they come? And so I was like, I don't, don't know the specific story, buddy, but I would, I would imagine, you know, there are a lot of times where somebody encountering a really hard thing in their life, very difficult, whether that's a loss of somebody that they love, or that's, you know, being really, really bullied by others or I don't know somebody who's young like that, when they, when they encounter hardship or difficulty, sometimes,
Jeff Zaugg (36:43.982)
they tend to blame God for that. They either say, why would God allow this to happen? So I will choose not to believe in God or God is mean, beating up on me. Why would, you know, I'm not going to follow God's result, whatever the case may be. So we talked about that for a few minutes and then he was quiet for a second. And then a few minutes later he said, you know, dad, I wish somebody would tell that person if they feel that way that those things didn't happen because God's mad at them. They happened because of sin.
Like the world's broken and just all these bad things happen because sin has broken the world. And that's why Jesus came. And that's why Jesus wants to be with them is to make those bad things, those wrong things right. And I'm like swerving off the road, falling out of my car. I'm like, you know, cause I didn't, I never imagined that he would understand in that moment and be able to apply in that moment the truth of the gospel.
golly, was so, it was one of those moments where the Lord was like, listen, this is why you're doing this. This is why we do this. This is, this is because things will come and hardship will come and situations, circumstances in life will come. And if you've been investing faithfully, then they'll be able to face that with a gospel outlook and through a lens of the scriptures. And so, you know, those, those times, sometimes they're few and far between.
they are life giving enough and encouraging enough to say, we're gonna keep going on the nights where you're like, everybody get out and go to bed. So, you know, I would encourage in the day to day in the regularity of all things, scripture, prayer, fellowship. Your kids, know, Kylie, your kids know what's important to you. You can say all day long that,
you're a Christian and that you follow Jesus and that you love the Bible, but man, they're going to see it in your life if it's true. They're going to experience it. And kids aren't stupid. Like I think sometimes we treat kids like just because they're little and they don't have the, sometimes they do stupid things. Sometimes we treat them like they're stupid. They're not, they're not. They see our lives. They know what's important to us. They know if baseball is more important to us than the church, right? They know if
Jeff Zaugg (39:09.102)
If you know our Tuesday night poker night is more important to us than reading the word on regularly, like they're going to know these things. And it's not to say that any of those things are bad. It's just that we've got to understand that our priorities always being examined. Yes. And whether, whether we recognize what our priorities are in a hut.
they're going to recognize they know them. can tell. So we bet we bet just like they know if I'm stressed, just like they know if you're nicer today than you were yesterday, like we're not always aware of how we're coming across, but they are, they're observing every little thing. you know, Jeff, that I think that sometimes that's daunting that dads are like, man, I can't like if that's the truth, I'm, I'm in big trouble. Like I can't ever get it right.
But it's not about us being perfect. Like the Lord doesn't expect us. He knows we're not gonna be perfect. That's why he sent Jesus. Like we're never gonna do this perfectly. But even if we can do it perfectly, we can do it purposefully. Like we can have intention behind what we do. And so when we don't meet that standard, which we're not always going to, when we don't meet that standard, we can go to our kids and say, I'm sorry. This is not who I wanna be.
This is not how I wanna act. I shouldn't have raised my voice. I shouldn't have told you what I told you. I shouldn't have treated you like this. That was sin on my part. I need God's grace. I need forgiveness from you. And ultimately I need Jesus. Just like you do, I need Jesus. I need the grace of God. I need to be sanctified. I need to grow. And would you forgive me for that? Because our kids, don't expect you to be perfect. Man, I can't speak for everybody's kids. My kids are so gracious.
There's so much more gracious than I am. And I think that's probably pretty universal. They're so willing to forgive. They're so willing to overlook my flaws. But I want to ensure that they know that those are flaws. That I don't have it all together. That I don't have it all figured out. And that I'm relying on new mercies every day. And a lot of those mercies are coming from them. Well, that moment, though, just to highlight the multiplication of that moment. When we slow down and we...
Jeff Zaugg (41:30.382)
when you just own, we own as dad, hey, this is, I missed it, which I can do again with my six year old when she's down on her way out. Like later today, I can do this again, say, hey, two days ago, yep, you were absolutely right. Like the multiplication of that moment though is my humility and pursuit of her heart is God is honored by that, okay? Then they are modeled in that moment. My little, these little eyes, these little shiny eyes of my daughter are seeing,
I can actually grow to be someone who owns and apologizes when I misstep because we all do. then, but then there's also a closeness. Like the other multiplication is I'm closer to my daughters. They feel closer. It's a beautiful growth step as a family. Like there's all these benefits from just being humble and apologizing. And I want to make sure I don't miss. I quickly mentioned earlier that you're part of the team at Manhood Journey. We've had...
Kent Evans on twice, think, and love sending our community at Dad Awesome to all the resources you guys have created. But there's a massive research study report that when I say massive, it's not intimidating because it's very visual. It's designed and delivered for the dad who has like There's charts everywhere. No, truly, I'm grateful for how you made it so just shareable. But it's like 6,000 dads. Do I have that number right? We're a part of it.
And this is dads giving their own, like answering the questions. So the numbers probably are actually better than what's actually real because we all have a little bit of generosity towards our own responses. But I mean, you discovered just to make every dad feel a little better, like you're not alone, 22 % of Christian fathers regularly read their Bible with their children. so there's room, and that's not a defeating number. That's a, can all turn a dial of intentionality there. 78 % don't spend intentional time
discipling their kids. Just don't, that's not part of the, that's not part of an intentional area of time, 78%. And then you said less than 17 % pray regularly as a family beyond meals and bedtime. Like, so there's, there's massive room for growth and huge impact. Just like that compounded multiplication moment of apologizing, like these things have the multiplied impact. Would you just take a few minutes, not super long, but like, what are some of like the ahas you had?
Jeff Zaugg (43:53.262)
And how would you like, what would you share to encourage our dads to go download the report and learn from it? Yeah, I think there's, there's three overarching ideas that, um, that I kind of gleaned from, from these responses. that is that, um, dads are overwhelmed. They're underprepared, uh, and they're isolated and.
Jeff Zaugg (44:19.69)
I that part of the issue, like we can talk about these things a lot, but part of the issues that most men who become fathers never had an example of what this looks like. Then that's not everybody, by God's grace, there are a lot of faithful dads out there that imparted this to their sons, but most of us never had this. so I think about, so I was not raised in a Christian home.
I didn't get saved until after I graduated from high school and got involved in a church and there was a guy in his, I don't know, early 50s, late 40s, early 50s, who was just, he was just a regular guy. He was a carpenter, construction guy, had a family and took me and some other guys under his wing and just like always invited us over for game nights and for cooking out and for whatever else. like, he did not sit down and say, hey,
I want to disciple you." But instead, he just invited me into his world. And he was the first person that taught me how to grill steak. He was the first person that showed me how to pray over your family. He was the first person that showed me how important it is to know and to love the Bible and to pour that into your kids. And so even though I didn't have it modeled for me growing up, I was able to see a model of it pretty soon after I came to faith and just recognize this
vast importance and honestly lamented a little bit over what I missed out on. But God was so gracious in allowing me to see that early in my faith journey.
constantly reminds me that most guys don't have that. They don't ever see that from anyone. And so I think there's a lot of, so certainly we as individuals, I think when we see numbers like this, we're like, golly, this is either I'm not alone. And there's a little, there's a little like, wow, it's not just me. But I hope that that doesn't make us think that like, okay, it's okay for us to stay here. I hope that it's motivating to us to say, okay, I'm not alone, but.
Jeff Zaugg (46:30.314)
man, there's so much room for me to get better and be more faithful. And so I pray that that men will see this and realize, okay, maybe I don't just need to sit and wait around for somebody to show me. Maybe I need to go ask somebody. Maybe I need to find someone who does this and shadow them and ask them questions and figure out like, what does this look like? How do I do this? And, you know, if you're
If you're a church leader, there's so much opportunity here that man, every time you have, whether it's a baby dedication or family dedication or whatever the case may be, like you've got an opportunity to come to a family and be like, Hey, let's let us walk with you for a few weeks before this dedication service and help you see what it looks like to raise your kids and the nurturing, the admin to show the Lord and give you tips and give you tools and help equip you to do this faithfully.
You know, it's again.
guys, especially with young kids, they feel like they have everything. They're trying to work hard so they can actually provide for their family. They're trying to get everybody to the right soccer practices and baseball games and everything else. there's all this, there's everything that just kind of conflates together and they feel like they can't do everything. And in those circumstances, I would love to just encourage guys in saying that you can't. You can't do it.
That's why you need Christ. That's why all of us need Jesus. We can't do this. This task of raising our kids in such a way that they know, love, and serve Jesus, it is impossible to do on our own. I can't do it. I've tried. I have failed so many times over and over again. I've got to be empowered by the indwelling spirit of God in order to do this. And so I would encourage like,
Jeff Zaugg (48:32.32)
stop thinking, I've got to add another thing to my list. Instead, make sure that your priority list is correct and that Jesus is at the top. That's it. If you are walking with the Lord, if you are faithful to the church, if you are in the Word, if you are praying regularly, those things will mold and shape you and by extension, naturally pour out over into your family and into your kids. And so if we can prioritize the disciplines that are so important in our own lives,
then our families are gonna feel the effects of that. And then it makes it easier to help prioritize that in the lives of our family as well. And so then we're gonna see, that's what's gonna bring big change. Like, not just change to us, not just change to our families, but change to our churches, change to our culture, change to so many other areas and avenues in our life. And so I think the real thing that we see in this is that it's not just about
how dads are doing in relation to their family. It's just how dads are doing in general. Man, man.
You are going to feel so defeated and you are going to feel so overwhelmed if you just think I'm not doing enough, I've got to figure out how to do more. No, you got to figure out how to sit at the feet of God to enjoy Him and to allow Him to set your priorities and your schedule and everything else. And then you're going to be all right.
Like if you can get there, you're gonna be all right. Trust and follow and love and enjoy him. And so, you know, there's so many takeaways that we can find in this report. But man, if I could encourage guys, it would just be like, go to Crest. Like he has told us, he has promised us, his yoke is easy, his burden is light. You feel overburdened, you feel overwhelmed, you feel like you can't possibly do another thing. Good news.
Jeff Zaugg (50:40.366)
Good news, there's rest in Jesus. Go to Him. He's gonna take that burden off of you. So that's what I would encourage. Go to Christ. Thank you. I wanna just quick highlight and then I'm gonna ask you to pray for all of us dads. But the highlight, we cheer on dads to, lead yourself, lead your family, lead other dads. There's three steps to leadership. what you're sharing, like truly, the lead yourself, it's like go to Christ, right?
lead your family. It's just you've given these three, this three, hey, word, prayer, fellowship. Like we truly could go ask a peer dad or a mentor dad, hey, like these three areas help me. I want to grow. I want to lead my family better. Plus the report actually has broader, even some of the core discovery for like a decade at Manhood Journey about categories of like, so there's so much there.
But then the lead other dads, you brought up that example of baby dedication or like a baptism moments in your church that naturally you could at the dad listening right now could create using resources for manhood journey, resources from dad awesome. They're out there, the resources create. we are going to send people like, cause Josh, I know you serve the local church specifically in this way, but like,
Hey, we can do an intentional couple steps leading into baby dedication, leading into a baptism moment. And there's moments with catechism, other moments. So yes, to all these things, thank you, Josh. Thank you for what you are leading and the deep passion that you're bringing. And I feel like we have to go around too. I'm just going to have to have you on for another round. That's what it comes down to. Anytime. It is a pleasure to be here. I'm grateful for the opportunity. Would you pray and lead us in a short prayer, just overall, all the dads listening? Yeah.
Absolutely, let's pray together. Father, it's not lost on us the significance to be able to open a prayer in that way, that you have invited us to call you Father, that you have given us a model and a picture of what a father should be. And Lord, certainly as often as we fall short of that, we are so grateful that we find grace in Jesus to get up and try again, not in our own effort.
Jeff Zaugg (52:58.318)
not in our own works, our own merit, but by the grace of Christ alone. And I pray for all these men who will listen to this podcast, Lord, all the dads who are tired, who are weary, who are overwhelmed, who are discouraged, God, I pray that they would find their hope in the only place that we can find true hope, and that is in Jesus. I pray that you would draw us to your word, God. I pray that we would open it and find encouragement, Lord.
For many of us find conviction, God, that we would find the hope that we speak of, Lord, and that we would find the capacity to be the fathers that you've called us to be. May we lean not on our own understanding, on our own skills and giftedness, Lord, but may we lean on Christ and Christ alone, May we accomplish and seek to accomplish and strive toward all this by the power of the Spirit, God.
Help us to be dads that love Jesus, that model Jesus to our kids, to our wife, and that pour Jesus out into the lives of others, That's a big ask. I recognize that, but I also know that you can accomplish it. So may we be faithful in seeking. Well, thank you for Jeff. Thank you for this ministry.
Thank you for your grace and allowing us to have this conversation today. Thank you so much. Snow so much. For the love and the mercy and the grace that we find in Jesus. We prepare all this in His name. Amen.
Jeff Zaugg (54:45.272)
Thank you so much for joining us for episode 390 with Josh Kubler. The conversation links, the show notes, the key findings, top quotes, the transcripts, the link to the State of Fatherhood Report for Manhood Journey, and all the other resources that we mentioned earlier, including the Dad Awesome Accelerator, the new coaching page on our website. You just need to jump over to dadawesome.org slash podcast and look for episode 390.
You'll find everything right there. Hey, I'm cheering for you guys, praying for you as we're kind of at the halfway mark of summer. Let's lean in, let's bring our full hearts and let's do, guys, I pray every week that something, one nugget from today's conversation you will put into practice that we're not dads who just think and have intent, but we're dads of action. So praying for you, cheering for you. Have a great week, guys.
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"If our target is anything other than our children loving God, enjoying Him, and bringing Him glory, then we're aiming at the wrong target."
"We're stewards, not owners. Our kids aren't ours. They ultimately are the Lord's and He has entrusted us to steward them, to care for them, to raise them, to protect them, to shepherd them."
"How I react in this moment is actually way more important than what I'm reacting to."
"Our kids aren't stupid. They see our lives. They know what's important to us. They know if baseball is more important to us than the church."
"The goal isn't perfection—we can't always do it perfectly, but we can do it purposefully. When we don't meet that standard, we can go to our kids and say, 'I'm sorry. I need Jesus just like you do.'"
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