436 | Coaching Boys into Manhood, Reclaiming Play, and the Questions That Will Anchor Your Next Three Years (Alan Briggs)
Episode Description
Most men are getting lived by their lives instead of actually living them. In this conversation, Alan Briggs unpacks how a life of constant escape leaves us empty at the end of the day, and what it looks like to design something we can actually engage with instead. From Yes Days with your kids to preparing for the car ride home the way you'd prepare for a business meeting, Alan brings practical insight that will reshape how you show up as a dad this week.
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Alan Briggs is a coach, author, and adventurer based in Colorado Springs. He runs two and a half companies, including a coworking space, and spends his days helping leaders find a lighter, more sustainable way to live and work. He's the author of multiple books, including his latest resource on anti-burnout, and the host of his own podcast for leaders. Alan and his wife are raising four kids ranging from 12 to 23, including two adopted children. He loves the mountains, disc golf with his son, and learning to cheer for his kids in the worlds they love most.
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The best dads aren't the ones with the most time. They're the ones who prepare for the small moments with the same intentionality they bring to work.
A coming of age year for your son doesn't require waking up at 4 a.m. It just requires showing up consistently and inviting other trusted men to speak life into him.
Celebrate who your kids actually are instead of trying to make them love what you love. Curiosity is the doorway to connection.
We were built for both meaningful work and real rest. Without a healthy theology of both, we swing between burnout and apathy.
The question that changes everything: What is the good life for you and your family three years from now?
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Alan’s BOOKS
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Alan Briggs: Most men are getting lived by their lives. They are not living their lives. They are letting choices make them. They are not making intentional choices. And I don't want to look back a decade from now and realize that I was just making the right cultural choice or the right comparative choice because somebody else would do that.
Jeff Zaugg: Hey guys, welcome back to Dad Awesome. Today, episode 436, I've got Alan Briggs joining me. Two invitations for you guys before we dive into it.
Monday, June 1st kicks off the month of June, which is Fatherhood Month. Father's Day is not enough. You guys deserve a month of celebration and encouragement. So as we kick off the month of all things Dad Awesome, June 1st is going to be Dad Awesome Day.
Now, the main reason for us declaring June 1st Dad Awesome Day is we need an excuse. As a ministry, and me as an author who released a book a few months ago, I need an excuse for a relaunch. We stumbled significantly with the Amazon launch in March. We had a great launch overall, and I am grateful for so many amazing men who have purchased books and gifted them. I think we have four states left in the country of the United States that have not received a book. The rest of them have. In fact, I will try to look it up and put in the show notes which states still have not received a shipment of a Dad Awesome book.
It was a successful launch, but Amazon was a flop. It was not able to, for several months, get the hardcover copy on Amazon. Well, that's fixed, and June 1st is Dad Awesome Day. We are trying to rally our community, even if you already have a copy of the book, to buy a copy on Amazon on June 1st and consider helping us through a few text messages or a social post. Invite other dads or moms or grandparents to buy a book that day. What it's going to do is spark the algorithm of Amazon to hopefully reach thousands of additional dads with the book. By having all the orders in the same launch day, it really does help.
So all you have to do, if you're interested in helping, is text the word "book" to the number 651-370-8618. This will be in the show notes as well. Text the word "book" to our Dad Awesome number, which is 651-370-8618, and I will hit you with a couple of text messages, two or three that day, of reminders to just encourage you to be a part of that launch day, Dad Awesome Day.
Also, a quick heads up. Our coaching cohort, the Dad Awesome Accelerator, the next one launches June 10th. So now is the time, in the next week here, to prayerfully apply. It is about half full right now, but we do have a few more spots left and would love to have you guys join us for the summer cohort.
With that aside, Alan Briggs is a coach. He loves investing in leaders. He's an author with several books out. They will all be in the show notes. He's an adventurer. He loves adventuring into the mountains of Colorado. He lives in Colorado. He's a husband, a father, and thinks deeply around fatherhood. I'm so grateful that he joined me today. So this is episode 436 with Alan Briggs.
The Conversation
Jeff: Today on Dad Awesome, I have Alan Briggs joining me from the mountains. You're in the Front Range, right? Colorado Springs. Do I have that right?
Alan: Yes. Looking up at the mountains. This summer I am about to really be directly in the mountains. But yeah, still actually looking up at snow as we record this in May.
Jeff: You can still get up for some snowboarding and skiing in May. Is that accurate?
Alan: Ski areas have closed. I've been known to sneak up on Pikes Peak and hitchhike a little bit, do a couple of rounds in May, do some snowboarding. But yeah, I love playing in the mountains. I absolutely love living here.
Play in This Chapter of Fatherhood
Jeff: Well, let's start there. Play. Play in this chapter of fatherhood. So tell us about the age of kids. You don't have to be specific for each kid, but what does play look like as a family these days?
Alan: Yeah, so the range is, my kids are 12 to 22. So it looks really, really different. My son is really into disc golf right now, and so I have just loved getting out with him. It gives us tons of time to reconnect, and he is even pushing into tournaments and things like that. So that's been really fun with him.
My kids are super creative and performing arts type kids, and so that's always been something to just help them work on as a craft, but not be so serious about it. I feel like it's just been beautiful that they've gotten to experience that. My daughter was up on stage this weekend several times, and just cultivating that has been beautiful to watch.
But as we shift into the end of the school year, we start to say, "Okay, what do we want to do this summer?" And I take a lot of time off. That's been a huge discipline for me since starting my coaching business. I was like, let's mold this thing around our lives. A lot of that time, I want to be up in the mountains. I want to be pushing hard, or climbing a mountain, or in a stream, camping. I love doing that with my kids and planning adventures, even with their friends. That's been really fun to take their friends out, teach them to cook in the wilderness. That's been a blast.
I'm absolutely loving this season of parenting. I have two that are out of high school, and so play looks very, very different. My daughter, 23, is kind of grinding herself down a little bit to the bone as she works in the season. So that's an interesting thing to watch and help her fight for play as money and job and provision and bills feel so serious right now. It's a really cool season. I'm honestly loving having older kids, and the challenge of raising young adults is no joke. They still need you a lot. But play seems to be that thing that kind of connects and galvanizes us in the summer.
Here's my risk, Jeff. This summer, I said to my two youngest, "We can do whatever you want for a day this summer, within reason, reasonable budget, but you plan the day." So we've got those two days on the calendar for my youngest two, and we're just going to do basically whatever they want for those days. I'll just be this sort of driver and resourcer of the day.
Jeff: Is that with the whole family they pick, or just a dad-child?
Alan: Just one-on-one. Yes.
Jeff: A yes day. I've heard that, a yes day. I'm just like, we're going to do anything, you stack it. I've never done one of those. You're inspiring me.
And it is fun that you brought up being on the stage and the arts, because between last night's performance and tonight's performance, as we record, for our theater with my girls, it's dance and theater. All four girls are involved. And this is not a frontier that I have any personal experience in, with theater.
Alan: Me either. And I am learning it. It's kind of fun. You like it? Because I grew up playing sports. To me, every game, you don't know what's going to happen. But in performing arts, you may have six of the exact same thing, and I'm asking questions like, "Should we show up for all six of them? We know what's going to happen. Do we have flowers for all of them? Do we act surprised at the end?" Like, I don't know how this thing goes. Let's just go figure it out.
Jeff: It has been playful. It has been emotional. It's been delightful. I haven't brought the flowers yet. I've shown love in other ways, because it just feels like it's the default. You bring flowers, and I'm like, so it's been other ways.
Alan: Pineapple. I love bringing a pineapple, something that just is unique and embarrasses them. Just pick something that will put a smile on their face, and no other parent would ever do.
Jeff: I might just go for that. A prickly pineapple, and hand it to them. I love it.
The Coming of Age Year and Cooking in the Wilderness
Jeff: You brought up cooking in the wilderness. I read, I think in some of my research for this conversation, about a special meal that your son made for the family to kind of culminate a discipleship pathway, I think inspired by John Tyson, right? The Primal Path. Tell us a little bit about that journey. I just love hearing about intentional roadmaps that usually don't go how we planned, but have moments. I'd love to hear a little bit about it.
Alan: Yeah. So I've kind of synthesized things from Tyson, Love Restoration Project, and just other dads along the way, just saying, "What have you done for a man year?" And so we do a year from 12 to 13 that culminates with lots of different challenges. Every kid is different. My adopted son was very resistant to the idea of challenge and anything that could feel like failure. My youngest son is like, "Bring it on, let's do it." So various challenges that he and I outlined, and he agreed on and chose.
It really culminates with a trip together where we just go play and have fun. One of the things was learning to cook over an open fire, which is something that I'm super passionate about. It's 15 feet away from my house, the fire pit in the backyard. Perfect.
After a challenge that he and his buddy went on, where they had to find their way through different spots of this wilderness area, they had their phone, they could call me if they got extremely lost, but that was plan Z down the line. They actually picked up different supplies along the way, and part of them was a whole bag of potatoes that they had to carry. So learning to cook this on the open fire and work with this as a craft, and failing a little bit in the meantime.
The most beautiful moments were when you bring other men along and around, and they speak life into him. I brought my friends along, and some of his friends' dads, and we just spoke life. His grandfather was there and spoke life into him. "You've got what it takes."
There are so many different ways to do it. I know there's a lot of dad guilt around "I didn't do it" or "I didn't do it right." The biggest thing is, it's never too late. Whether your son is 23 or your son is 13, it's never too late. And you've got to do it in the way that that kid receives it, so they're not comparing their experience to their brother. We do something unique as well for the girls. It's just different.
Just do something that connects you to them, and that teaches some new skills, and that challenges them a bit, but ultimately that ends with just affirming, "You've got what it takes. We see you. We believe in you." It's been different for all my kids and beautiful for all my kids.
The Ingredients of a Year-Long Experience
Jeff: I love that you said, "Hey, take, there's no guilt here." This is really moving. Every single one of us can move to being inspired, having intent, taking action. Usually these experiences that are at a deeper impact are a journey versus a one-time event. I'd love to hear, even using the metaphor of cooking a meal, what are some of the ingredients, no matter if it's for a son or a daughter? Some things, when you trade into doing some research, and maybe we start there. Do some research of, like, what have other people done. You don't have to start from a blank canvas. How would you coach me for a moment on some of the ingredients or some of the factors that would go into creating a year-long experience?
Alan: Yeah. You know what? I think some things will take a day, and maybe even just an afternoon, a very specific thing you can check off of the list, and other things will be a bigger challenge.
One of the most fun things is figuring out a nonprofit that you can get behind, a cause you can get behind, and then raising money for that cause. My son ended up raising 1,100 bucks. Granted, I gave him access to my friends, but he had to go up to them in our coworking space, and people he had to approach and call them. We read a book together about that cause, which happened to be homelessness in our city. A friend of mine, who is actually the director, the president of that organization, I just told him, and he was just blown away by, "Man, 1,100 bucks raised by this kid." He even created a video on it and is telling people about it. Experiencing something bigger than yourself, not just, "Can I chop wood, or can I climb this mountain?" Yeah, good. But something that truly has sort of a transcendent piece to their life. So that was beautiful.
Again, some of those things, I think they can chip away at. There were several river days. My son wanted to become more competent heading down rivers. So that was four days on the river that looked very, very different conditions. It wasn't just one thing that you could accomplish. So I think that's good, to have something that's ongoing that you regularly think about.
The key is this. I know Tyson is up with his son at four in the morning, or whatever, and just to say, most dads can't do that every single day. For us, it was Sunday early morning happened to be the time. So we grab our cereal, and we would go just check in. "What'd you learn this week? What are you wrestling with? What's hard? Let's look at the challenge here. Let's read through this together." We just used some different principles.
I would say, almost none of it was just created from scratch. Almost all of it was curated and synthesized from other people. I just want to challenge you. Most dads give up before they start. You don't have to be up at 4:00 AM with your kid. You don't have to do it every day. Some things are challenges that they're really doing on their own. I give them the opportunity to read through the Bible from 12 to 13, and then I'll take you on a trip afterwards to celebrate. I'm reading with them maybe one day a week. The rest of it is just on them, and I'll ask them about it some, but it's got to be their journey to be able to do this. Then we reconnect and talk about questions and what feels weird, or challenging, or frustrating about the Bible that you can't understand, and kind of keep them on course a little bit.
Resources and Crafting for Your Specific Kid
Jeff: This is so helpful. You've mentioned, well, we both mentioned John Tyson, Restoration Project, both friends of ours, and we'll link those out. Any other in the resource category for dads, just helpful, that's just top of mind right now? Any other that have been helpful for you?
Alan: Yeah, I mean, our mutual friend Jeremiah. Talking through other dads, and just say, "Hey, who's done something like this? What was helpful? What was not helpful? What was hard? Tell me about your kid uniquely." And just making sure that you've crafted around your kid.
I think every human has a different relationship with challenge. Kids from trauma, my oldest two being adopted, challenge can feel incredibly threatening versus exciting. So really having to change that and adopt that. I actually just got home. We do a graduation trip with all of our kids, and we tell them, "Anywhere in the world that you want to go, we'll figure out how to get you there." We actually just got back from Japan with my 18-year-old, and he graduated early, and we've been planning this Japan trip. He brought his best friend with us.
It looks different in the arc of every kid's life, every kid's maturity. To me, do not let your fear get in the way of you doing something that is nurturing the heart of your son as he heads into those teen years.
What I'd Tell Myself Ten Years Ago
Jeff: Rewind, go back 10 years ago. Things you know today that you would love to deposit back in yourself, and that you can deposit into me as a dad in that phase. What are a few things that come to mind that you think, "Man, I wish I could just add a little emphasis there"?
Alan: Celebrate exactly who they are and exactly what they love doing, as opposed to, "Hey, I want to make you like me, hear the things that I love doing. So let's go do this." To me, I think that brings play in us as well.
So I'm rediscovering disc golf right now, which also happens to be free, which is awesome. It's not like, "Hey, we're going to book 60 bucks at a golf course every single time, and it's four hours." Sometimes it's grabbing an hour, and keeping my discs in the back of my car, and we love doing it, and we're both pretty good at it. But I would have never rediscovered it. It was probably 20 years since I had played.
I think that is part of it, is just saying, "What's one thing that you enjoy doing? Let's go do that together," as opposed to, "Here's what I love. Let me make you really like what I love." For certain kids, you get lucky because there's stuff that's just a blast to do. Other kids, you're going to have to really learn, "What do they love doing, and how do I come along with them? Teach me this. Teach me more about this. What are you learning? What videos are you watching on YouTube that you can share about this with me?"
I think that's part of it. Just showing up to celebrate them just in their element, doing their things. The question is like, what is God doing inside of them, shaping them, molding them? How are they uniquely designed? And then how can we come on like as spectators that get to just go, again, drama, performing arts. That was not my scene. I don't know anything about it, but I'm loving learning and watching them up on stage and processing through, "What's it like the night before a show? How's the first show different from the last show?" I literally know nothing. So teach me. That's been beautiful.
Jeff: That phrase, "teach me." I'm curious, I'm wondering. So good.
Overwhelmed, Underwhelmed, and Whelmed
Jeff: Now, I know that if I'm not in a healthy place as a dad, if I'm in a place of, you even have this framework of overwhelmed or underwhelmed, and then I think the third word is "well-whelmed," right?
Alan: No, it's just "whelmed," right there, holding the tension between overwhelm and underwhelm. Thank you.
Jeff: Thank you. So this idea of, man, if I can find my pace, my settledness. I'd love to hear you just walk us through those three words and why this will help us bring more of what we're designed and meant to bring to our kids.
Alan: Yeah. A phrase I say a lot is, the way we work is not working. The way we work in our culture is not working. All the effects of that, all the studies from disengagement in work. And what's crazy is disengagement, many studies are saying 70% or more of employees out there. So seven out of 10 cubicles you'd walk past, men you'd talk through at the end of the day, are checked out of their work. They don't see how it would be meaningful, kind of a zombie as they show up. Disengaged.
And then over here, so many sprinting, running. These are a lot of the high achievers, high performers that I work with, that really want every day to matter, are exhausted. What's easy to do is swing the pendulum and just not care, and just to have apathy over here, or just extreme tension over here.
Again, I started a coworking space with a friend, so about 60 to 70 businesses are here in the course of the week. I just get to watch how people work, and overall, we can just say it's not working very well.
So if we can just start with that, to say, both of those, we have to have a theology of rest and a theology of work. And just to say, "We should just be chilling all the time, and I don't want to work at all," sort of the four-hour work week idea, could be super dangerous. Like, God built us for hard, meaningful work. And yet, over here, if all that we're pushing toward is hard, and we're exhausted, burning the candle on both ends, and then suddenly we have no space to do anything except escape when we go home. So what does escape look like, versus engagement, for you? And I think that's a question that every dad needs to ask.
We're not just talking about alcohol here. We're not just talking about scrolling here, sort of the typical things that we talk through, you know, finding moderation in what we do. We're actually talking about designing a life that we don't have to escape from, but we get to engage into. That's where things like Sabbath come into that. But also, just to say, are you working with your design?
We were talking about that before we hit record, Jeff. What is your design? How do you work within that? A lot of these principles I put in my book, this resource. It's kind of a book. It's not really a book. It's honestly a coaching experience, from 10 years of coaching, noticing those patterns. This idea of anti-burnout. We need a lighter way to live and lead personally, professionally, for our families, and for our career. Or, we feel joy in none of it, and eventually, we hit a crash. That's just not how God designed it.
Insights from a Room of 400 Dads
Jeff: We're going to make sure to link out to our listeners your book, Anti-Burnout, the lightness that is part of the design. Lightness doesn't mean ease, right? Lightness is like wholeness.
I'd love to hear a little more, just fatherhood insights, that as you put together or have launched and shared this book, insights for dads that are just like, they're bubbling up right now. You're like, "Man, because we know the destruction, the chaos of a dad who burns out. Like, physically can't even hold their kids," because burnout will hit us physically, or mentally, or the escape side of just making decisions that bring such pain. I use the shrapnel metaphor of, like, it's a real possibility. What are a few of the coaching insights you'd want to pass on to us from the book for us dads?
Alan: Yeah. This Saturday, I was actually leading a session at a conference around what it looks like for us to be living well past our forties and into our fifties, sixties, seventies. Literally, the room has 400 men crammed in. This smelled a little bit like a middle school locker room. There's just too many men in this small room. 400 men in here. And there's a huge line afterwards.
You could just see in their eyes, everybody is saying, "I want to do this better, so that I can show up really well as a dad. My wife deserves more. My kids deserve more." I had a guy come up to me at 65 and go, "How can we do 20, 30 more years of marriage well?" And I'm like, "Well, first of all, I haven't been 65 before. I am lucky enough to watch my parents doing that well in their seventies, and that's been modeled to me."
But nobody's coming up to me, Jeff, and going, "Man, I want to write this book. How the heck do I get this book out of me?" Crying. They may have that desire, like, "Man, how do I optimize the last 10% at work?" While they're asking those questions, that's not what makes us tear up at the end of the day, or what makes us feel empty at the end of the day, to go, "I know I have more in the tank. I know life isn't just about getting home and throwing a crappy dinner on and dropping the kids off at sports, scrolling for a little bit in the car while we wait for them, drive them home, and go home and hit repeat the next day."
Every single man in line, most of them in the room dads, are going, "Man, I want to give more to the things that truly matter. I want to prioritize. I do not want to climb this ladder and then realize it was leaning against the wrong wall. What would it look like to actually do this thing well?"
And then, again, God talks about rest, and God talks about work. All throughout Scripture, we need, again, to develop a healthy theology of work before we can develop a healthy theology of rest. There's a lot right now. I'm wearing my WHOOP band, and I know there's a lot of wearables in that.
But what's been interesting with LeBron getting older? We saw this with Tom Brady as well, when he was in his forties. More and more people focusing on recovery, and realizing that that's actually what separates the high performers. That's what separates the people who are able to do this sustainably for a long time. Whether you like Tom or LeBron or not, I was a hater when those guys were younger. But when a 41-year-old dude is dunking over guys, like, you've got to pay attention, because there's a guy who has taken care of himself for a long period of time, and this push out and then recover, push out and then recover, work and then rest. It fits in the fabric of who God created us to be.
But how many people just burn bright like a supernova, and then they're out? Sadly, too many of us as dads.
Four Buckets: Space, Replenishment, Relational Time, Growth
Jeff: This takes us into these four buckets, maximizing the season. I think it was the overarching, but the buckets of space, replenishment, relational time, and growth. Do I have those four correct?
Alan: Yeah. We talked on about those in coaching.
Jeff: I'd love to hear about these. Also practically, when you talk about, our physical bodies need to recover, and just like, we know we can bring more if we've gotten the sleep we need, or the one day a week Sabbath day. I'd just love to hear some practical on these four as well.
Alan: Let me throw this back on you a little bit. As you know, once a coach, always a coach. Which one feels most natural to you, Jeff, of those four?
Jeff: Relational time comes. I mean, we love to host, I love the dad-daughter dates. I love relational time. However, I found last weekend, like, the escape of listening to an audiobook and doing landscaping by myself felt really good. The natural, I'd say, relational time.
Alan: Okay. Which feels least natural to you?
Jeff: I'd say the replenishment right now, the taking me time.
Alan: Okay. So we just have to figure out which one, for whatever reason, feels most and least natural. To start with that most natural piece, that's going to be a pathway into some of the other things.
There's plenty of dads that would say they have to fight really, really hard for the relational. Maybe they don't, they're just not that similar with their kids, and it's just harder work. I know for my adopted kids, it's just, I think, always going to be harder work. We're not biologically connected in the way that God built it. So working harder in that space.
Growth tends to be one that a lot of dads are growth junkies and are always reading things. The question is, are we picking up books to read about our kids? Are we picking up books to understand how we can be the best dad that we can be, or learning from another dad? When we get together, it's easy to talk business. It's hard to talk parenting.
So then we're going to have to say, if this thing is least natural to me, the space one I find is really hard for leaders, especially hard-charging CEOs and folks. And listen, I run two and a half companies. So it's not that I am a monk and am able to sit all day, and then I go home, and I'm the after-school parent, and it's a great joy and a challenge. But when you look at the day, there's not a ton of space built in there. I need to create that space.
Jeff: Pan out for one moment, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Alan, but pan out and just explain what each of these means. Just, I know we're saying space, but just to help them know. Space, replenishment, relational time, and growth. Can you give us just a flyover for a minute, before we go deeper?
Alan: Yeah. So space, just having enough margin in there to breathe. One of the things I say to leaders a lot is that leaders are paid to make wise decisions. To make wise decisions, we need space.
There's a leader yesterday that fired back an email to me of, "This won't work because of this." I had asked him to take three weeks to think through that. Even when gifted three weeks, it's, "No, no, we have to do that. I have to shut this down now." We're operating in our limbic brain so much of the time. It's reactive. Our monkey brain, as opposed to saying, "What might God have for me here?"
Space sounds like that's what you're doing as you're out landscaping outside. For some, it could be monotonous work that doesn't trigger their brain. For me, I love getting creative rest. I love getting active rest. I love being out hiking. That's space for me. So for whatever reason, when I'm moving, this is true of a lot of active leaders, when I'm moving, my mind starts to slow down. When I'm sitting, sometimes my mind is moving too quickly. Everybody talks about, "I don't just want to sit on the couch." I do a lot of sabbatical coaching. "I don't just want to sit on the couch for two months." I'm like, "Who's talking about sitting on the couch? Let's figure out how you're designed."
Jeff: Get on a paddleboard. Replenishment, how is that different than space?
Alan: Space, a lot of times, is actually us catching up from the day, us catching up from the decisions. At the end of the day, sometimes I walk in the house, my wife's like, "Hey, how was your day?" And like, "I don't know yet." True. Because I just had seven meetings or five coaching sessions with leaders in different states, and I'm thinking through this. Like, I haven't even thought about it. And then I answer calls or Marco Polos or voice memos in the car. This phrase that leaders say a lot, and dads say a lot, "Everyone needs me all the time."
But space to not be needed. I think that's the beauty of Sabbath, is, you just get to be a dude, and just get to be a dad. Sometimes I'll just sit at a coffee shop, and I'll be like, "Do I want to pick up this book, or do I just need to think for a little bit?" And just a conversation with a friend that isn't a business meeting. That's really, really important.
Whereas replenishment, a replenishment cycle is actually about physically, mentally, emotionally, relationally giving ourselves the things that got depleted throughout the course of the day. So just think about Jesus with the big five. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself." So heart, soul, mind, body, and relationships, the big five.
And just to go, you could do a quick assessment. What's low for you right now, and what's high for you right now? Celebrate that. I was actually with a leader here. I've got it on a whiteboard yesterday, and he said what's low is his mind. He is just going, and he feels taxed, decision fatigue. What's high is his body, and he's just like, "Man, I've been getting out, being active, got a couple of hobbies that I'm doing, working out." Amazing. Now, how do we figure out how to invest differently and move the needle in those different areas?
So again, space, more of a catch-up. Replenishment, physically, how do we replenish our bodies, minds, hearts, and relationships with the things that, along the way, just got depleted?
The growth piece is going to look different for everybody, but I just believe we are meant to be learning and sharpening the ax, and that growing is part of being alive. It's part of asking questions, whether my kids are helping me grow, whether I'm growing professionally, I'm growing relationally, I'm growing, and saying, "Man, how do I become a better husband, because the way I said that didn't work very well. That was not great. My kids saw it. I may need to apologize in front of my kids for how I acted or reacted in that situation."
Growth, Pain, and Actually Making the Change
Jeff: It just jumped into my heart, when you say in growth, me thinking about fatherhood growth. Because I'm preparing for these weekly conversations for the podcast, often my growth in that area could be channeled to help other dads grow. And my wife, twice this week, she's like, "Have you re-listened? Two weeks ago, you should re-listen to that episode. You should re-listen to your own podcast." I was like, "Yes." And I did. It was a little ouch, for sure.
This framework of paying attention to what's low, and saying, "I can actually maximize, I can calibrate, I can make change, but it requires time, and sacrifice, and risk." Like, "No, this is more important than going in the direction that I'm being pulled." What actually causes the dad to make the change? Even if they're hearing right now, "Yeah, that's it." What do you think causes them to actually make the change?
Alan: This adage in coaching we repeat a lot is, people don't change until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change. I believe that's mostly true. The reality is, people don't change until they have to, or until they want to. Paying attention. Maybe there's a guy in your life that you desperately want to get it, and we actually can't force people to have the hunger to be able to change.
So at some level, "Pay attention to what you pay attention to" is the phrase. Sometimes there's this hunger that's like, "Man, I really should blank." And what I would say is, then make that move. Do that immediately.
So for my adult daughter, she's working, I'm working, and I realize, I have to be really intentional, because she's not in proximity. She lives across our city. I have to be intentional to take her on a date, to get together with her, to tender her heart, to ask her a question, do something together. So putting something on the calendar. For a particular, especially like an action-oriented dad, that's the thing. We could be a month or two down the line and be like, "I haven't actually had a deep conversation with my daughter." It's a very different season of life.
Car time could be beautiful, where you could go, "Man, I actually just haven't been tending to my kids' hearts, asking them deep questions as I'm in the car. That's a huge opportunity." That hunger for change.
So something doesn't have to break in your life. Don't hear me wrong. You don't have to burn out. But just that little bit of, like, "Man, that could be a different opportunity." What we usually do is go into the shame cycle. Instead, if we're feeling some level of anxiety, or even disappointment in ourselves, then suddenly that's the time to go put something on the calendar to do it differently.
So, I'm not kidding, you put it on the calendar when you're picking your kid up, to say, "Ask them three questions about their day." Maybe you're tanked at the end of the day. So ahead of time, you have to put those three questions in your notes, and you're studying them in the pickup line, because you're like, "That is how I'm going to engage my daughter, versus just, 'How was your day?'" That's how my son and I, while we're playing disc golf, is more than just talking disc golf. We're talking about his grades, or school, or things coming up.
To me, I prepare for business meetings. Do I prepare that well for a date with my wife? Do I prepare that well for a date with my daughter? Do I prepare that well for a car ride? And the answer for almost all of us, almost all the time, is no. But the invitation is, what if I were that intentional as a dad, to prepare the questions, to think through this, to pray over that time? Would our results change? I bet you they would. We find what we're looking for.
What Is the Good Life?
Jeff: That's piercing to me. There was a car ride last night, back from the theater performance with my two youngest. There was nothing intentional that I brought to that car ride. I was drained, and I just wanted to get home. I was checked out as a dad driving my two girls home. I missed 25 minutes. So preparing. If I could take the intentionality of preparing for our conversation today and have multiple pages into preparing for that date night.
I have not used that as a, like, "Why not? Why not? Because I don't get unlimited number of these dates with my four daughters, with my wife."
You asked a question to me before we hit record. "What are you dreaming for? What do you hope?" It was, "In the distance, where are you headed as a leader, as a ministry, as a dad, as a husband?" Could you ask one or two questions of all of us, just to plant those questions in us, to journal through, or to pray into? I'd love to hear you, kind of, how you ask a leader about that.
Alan: Yeah. Just to zoom out, a question that I love is, what is the good life for you and your family three years from now? What is the good life for you and your family three years from now? Get granular. Describe that. Where are you living? And if you were living there, what are you doing? Think about the ages of your kids.
There's something about three years that's long enough, but short enough. The good life, we are drowning right now in comparison. I feel it. I walked into a several million dollar home last week, and the comparison button went on of, like, "Well, their life's looking pretty good. I wish I lived in this spot, lived in this house, had some of the rhythms, had some of the opportunities." We can go there really quickly.
But comparison is killing us. What I love about that question is, it forces us to have the conversations. It forces us to pray, it forces us to go, "What is that?" Just that question from Jesus, that just boggles my mind, and is so hard to answer. "What do you want? What can I do for you?" We think, "Well, of course, like a blind man, of course he wants to be healed." But, "What do you want?" is one of the hardest questions for us. And I would say, especially as dads, because we're thinking through, "How can I get this kid going to this place financially? How can I fill up the coffers so we can have enough for all these other things? And then we've got vacation here, we're busy."
We tend to think about the urgent, and never think about the important. But that question is going to anchor, guard, guide, direct so many of your decisions over the next several years. It's so freeing, man. I just think at the end of these questions is freedom. I'm not trying to trick anybody. I'm actually trying to say, push this stuff aside. Who cares about somebody else's Instagram feed? What is the good life for you guys? And then, how do you then take the steps to get there?
Most men are getting lived by their lives. They are not living their lives. They are letting choices make them. They are not making intentional choices. And I don't want to look back a decade from now and realize that I was just making the right cultural choice or the right comparative choice because somebody else would do that. What is the good life?
So I would start with that as a big one. Of course, we can zoom in. I love asking questions on a weekly basis to look back and say, what are a few beautiful moments that I'm thankful for? Because the business meeting, when you get that big deal, that tends to be what you think about. But I go, "That was a beautiful moment watching my daughter shine on stage and getting to cheer her on. That was a beautiful moment with men in my backyard gathered around the fire pit, talking about anything but work, and just laughing together. That was a beautiful moment." So that's one of the things that I love to ask.
Closing Prayer
Jeff: Alan, I think that's a perfect spot to launch all of our dads listening into a time of reflection. Thank you for this conversation. Really grateful for you. I'm going to link out your coaching business, your podcast, and your books, so that they'll have access to all of that. Would you say a short prayer over all of us dads, that we would be men of action versus intent?
Alan: Yes. I'd love to. I love doing this palms up, palms down prayer.
So, men, as you're listening, as you're watching, some of you are dry and depleted and absolutely need to be refilled. I just want to invite, unless you're driving, I just want to invite you to put your palms up, because God is about to put something in your hands. For those of you who feel so exhausted because you are carrying too much, you are overloaded, you have way too many bricks in your backpack, I just want to invite you to put your palms down. Let's pray.
Father, you are a good dad, and you have good gifts for your kids. If we who want to be good dads love our kids so much, how much more do you love us?
So for those whose hands are open, God, fill them. Fill them with meaning, remind them of their identity, fill them with the knowledge, the gratitude, that you are a good dad, that you have been giving them gifts all along that they have failed to recognize. Would they receive them well, God, as you put things in their hands?
For those with palms down who are carrying so much, God, would you let them drop those things? Would they be reminded that they are not as important as they think in all the different areas in life, and yet they are so much more loved than they can ever imagine? And God, we are not the sum of what we carry. Who we are, God, our identity, and who we are loved by, is so much more important than what we are. And men need to drop some of those wrong beliefs right now.
God, thank you for this moment. Would this moment produce movement in men's lives, with a question, or a thought, or a conversation with their kids in the car. God, we want to be faithful as dads, in your name.
Episode Outro
Jeff: Thank you so much for joining us this week for episode 436 with Alan Briggs. All the conversation links and show notes, action steps, transcripts, links to Alan's books, and other information about Dad Awesome Day coming up on Monday, June 1st, and the next coaching cohort, the Accelerator, six weeks of everything we've learned in eight and a half years of this ministry, that's all going to be found at dadawesome.org/podcast, dadawesome.org/coaching for the coaching.
And the book launch, to help us with the Amazon launch day, Dad Awesome Day on June 1st, you need to send a text message. Text the word "book" to the number 651-370-8618.
Guys, thanks for leaning in this week. Thanks for prayerfully being a dad that takes action. So look through those show notes, prayerfully think back through, what is my action step? Our kids need us to be dads of action, versus dads of intent. So praying for you guys, grateful for you. Have a great week.
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"Most men are getting lived by their lives. They are not living their lives. They are letting choices make them. They are not making intentional choices."
"I prepare for business meetings. Do I prepare that well for a date with my wife, a date with my daughter, a car ride? Almost always, no."
"You don't have to be up at 4 a.m. with your kid. You don't have to do it every day. But do something that affirms you've got what it takes."
"Celebrate exactly who they are and exactly what they love doing, instead of trying to make them love the things that you love doing."
"We are not the sum of what we carry. Our identity and who we are loved by is so much more important than what we are as dads."
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