398 | When Your 4-Year-Old Breaks Your Heart Open: The Plumb Line for Dads (Dr. Jake Smith)

Identity & Living as Sons of GodPrayer & Hearing God's VoiceExperiencing God's Love
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Episode Description

What happens when your 4-year-old daughter whispers, "If I could line up all the dads in the world and pick a nice one or you, I'd still pick you"? In this episode, Dr. Jake Smith shares how that truth bomb from his daughter launched him on a journey to discover what he calls our "spiritual anatomy"—the four integrated systems (heart, soul, mind, strength) that Jesus perfectly demonstrated. You'll learn why most dads operate from just one dominant system, how to identify your type, and practical steps to become the whole-hearted, integrated father your kids desperately need.

  • Dr. Jake Smith is the founder of Plumb Line, a ministry dedicated to helping men and women live with their whole hearts through healing, wholeness, and purpose. A former pastor of 21 years, Jake now focuses on helping people integrate what he calls their "spiritual anatomy"—the four systems of heart, soul, mind, and strength that Jesus perfectly demonstrated. He and his wife have three children: two sons (19 and 17) and a 14-year-old daughter. Jake is passionate about helping fathers move beyond survival mode to become integrated, whole-hearted leaders in their homes.

    • Most dads live dominantly from one of four systems (heart, soul, mind, strength) with a "sidekick" system, creating 12 possible father types

    • Whatever you do to yourself emotionally, you'll do to your kids—if you dismiss your own feelings, you'll dismiss theirs

    • Jesus demonstrated perfect integration of all four systems, responding appropriately to each situation rather than predictable patterns

    • The goal isn't to stay in your comfort zone but to develop all four aspects of your spiritual anatomy for complete fatherhood

    • Creating space to understand your own emotions is the upstream work that transforms how you respond to your children's big feelings

  • I just said something like, honey, is daddy not very nice?

    And she said, not really. She didn't backpedal at all. She was like, not really, but I'd still choose you. And the hard truth for me, Jeff, at the moment, 10 years ago, without exaggerating, I genuinely believe she may have been the only human being in my life that could have given me that kind of feedback. Like, kind of, here's what it's like to be with you that wouldn't have caused me to become kind of defensive or even more probable dismissive.

    would have been more my style. But I could not just kind of blow off the sentiments of my own sweet little girl. That was the moment that caused me to look long and hard in the mirror and just ask the question, what the heck is wrong with me?

    you

    This is episode 398 of Dad Awesome. Guys, my name is Jeff Zog and I'm so thankful you're listening today. We're about to celebrate episode 400 and in the ramp up to episode 400, I decided to release this two-part conversation with Dr. Jake Smith. I, during this chat, it's about an hour total, so about a half hour each episode, during this conversation, I felt wave after wave of I need this, I need this, I can't believe

    Speaker 2 (01:57.36)

    I I've been 400 conversations into this ministry, nearly eight years of Dad Awesome. And I haven't in this way heard these insights. So I am positive you will be impacted. You will be more Dad Awesome after this next half hour with us because there is so much action, so much like, oh, this changes the way I show up as a dad for my kids. So I'm so excited. I want a quick shout out and remind you guys, we have two cohorts of our Dad Awesome accelerator.

    six week sprint. a virtual gathering. You're only dialing in midday on Wednesdays. We're hosting them both on Wednesdays. You just take an hour over your lunch break. If you can just find that one hour slot each week and then do the homework. We have a bias towards action here. I'm so thankful to bring our core discoveries from these nearly eight years of Dad Awesome to the Dad Awesome Accelerator. We've already got 12 guys who have locked in for this fall, which means we only have eight spots left. And I think

    three or four spots for the first cohort kicking off here in September. we're just three weeks out. I want to invite you guys, go to dadawesome.org slash.

    coaching, dadawesome.org slash coaching to learn about these next couple six week sprints for the Dad Awesome Accelerator. Let's dive in. So Dr. Jake Smith, he runs Plumline, which is this amazing ministry guiding us towards showing up with our whole hearts, guiding us towards healing, wholeness, purpose, living fully alive. And he's gonna unpack what a Plumline is in just a moment here. So this is the first half of my conversation with Dr. Jake Smith.

    Speaker 2 (03:43.47)

    Welcome to Dad Awesome.

    Thank you very much, Jeff. So inspired to be here. Love this ministry.

    I was like, what is a plumb line? And I kind of had an idea with the string and weight, but what is a plumb line?

    Yeah, a plumb line is an ancient tool. You've rightly said it's a weight that hangs on a string and it measures alignment. If we want to be sure the foundation of this building we're going to build is true and it's going to be strong enough to support what we build, a plumb line is significant. So that's what we're trying to do with hearts and souls and equipping dads.

    So on the home front, just to make it real personal for a moment, a plumb line for you as a dad, for you in your marriage, with your kids, and just fly over so our listeners know. So you got a 19-year-old son, 17-year-old son, and 14-year-old daughters. Is that still the right age? Okay. So that's the window of fatherhood. But on the home front, plumb line. If I was chatting with your family, your wife and three kids about like, is a plumb line? What are the things that are true alignment that you're like, you're going for, and you're coming back to like,

    Speaker 2 (04:48.738)

    let's check in and make sure we're still going in the same direction and things haven't shifted foundational direction. What would that mean, the plumb line on the home front?

    Yeah, so the metaphor shifts a little bit, but the necessary components to be sure that we're aligned and that foundation is true for me is the Shema. know, Jesus was asked three times, Matthew 22, Mark 12, and Luke chapter 10, what is the greatest commandment in the law? And in all three times, he affirmed this ancient Jewish prayer, you know, came out of Deuteronomy originally called the Shema, which is just love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

    love your neighbors yourself. And he said, there's nothing more important than that. Or even more profoundly in Matthew 22, all the law and all the commandments hang on that, or it's all built on that. This is the foundation, this is what it's about. Well, I started to form years ago, Jeff, what I now call our spiritual anatomy. And the idea is simple, just like the physical body has systems and our health or our flourishing has something to do with

    how functional and healthy those systems are. Well, the spiritual anatomy has systems too. We have these four, a heart system, a soul system, a mind system, and a strength system. And so for me, what real alignment looks like or foundational stability looks like is I've got to be working as a dad and as a man to ensure that all four of those aspects of my spiritual makeup are attached, because in worst case scenarios, they can be detached, you know. But secondly, nourished.

    because they can be connected, but not healthy. They could be over-functioning or under-functioning or asleep entirely or something. But then third, this word integrated. How do I ensure that each of these four parts of me are accessible and able to be applied within the relationship or within the problem-solving process or within the entrepreneurial pursuit or in this case for this podcast, within my fathering?

    Speaker 1 (06:50.368)

    And so alignment for me and for my family, and I do teach my kids and raise my kids around this. In fact, I'm planning right now to have another intentional conversation with all three of my children where I draw these four parts. There's a way that I draw it with circles that are interlapping and the true self emerges from the center of these four integrated parts. But I'll go through it and I'll ask them of these four, rate them, which one's doing really well right now and is the strongest, the most connected, the healthiest, and which one's kind of

    atrophied or kind of lagging behind. And we'll have conversations about how to be sure that we're harmonizing and intentionally growing these four parts so that we've got that foundation that's really aligned and can support the life that we're going to build.

    Yes. Okay. So you call it the spiritual anatomy, the four systems, heart, soul, mind, strength. Let's flip the question right to you right now, Jake, which one would you say is a flourishing, the strongest, and which one are you like, no, I've got some more attention to this one. Yeah.

    I love your question because in my research, what I've come to discover is that most of us are living dominantly from one of those four systems. And then that dominant system selects one of the three that are left as a sidekick, like recruits it to be a part of the operational procedure of life or whatever it is. And I'm actually developing an assessment that'll actually help people understand of these four archetypes. So maybe we should start there.

    What are these four things definitively, these four parts definitively? And naming kind of the personified archetypes of each of those four parts can help bring definition. So the heart part of us, I call the loving companion who is alive in us. The soul part of us is the visionary guide aspect of our makeup. The mind is the strategic overseer. And then the strength is the driven warrior part of us.

    Speaker 1 (08:48.344)

    So from those four archetypes, if it's true that all of us have one that's dominant and then a second as a sidekick, that means there are 12 possible types, 12 possible modus operandi that I can have imprinted on Mira or that I've selected as my strategy to survive and feel safe and experience meaning in the world. So my type, I'm soul dominant.

    So visionary guide dominance, spent a lot of time dreaming, ideating, inventing, futurizing, problem solving, strategizing, that kind of stuff. So I'm soul dominant. And then after I dream it, I run over into my strength, that driven warrior part, and I just start to build it. So dreaming and doing and dreaming and doing and ideating and achieving, that's how I tend to live my life. That type is called the visionary warrior.

    So that's me, I'm so dominant with this strength second. My mind is very suppressed. I do not like meetings, tactical meetings. I got solid 20 minutes and less if there's spreadsheets involved. I knock it down to 10. It's just like when we're really analyzing or structuring or systematizing or we're in the detail, I am really weak.

    in that area, that part of my makeup needs a lot of work. And then my heart has really been asleep for long time, that loving companion part of me, I'm rarely aware of what feelings are true inside of me, what needs that I personally have that are connected to those feelings. I certainly don't spend a lot of prioritized energy trying to ensure my needs are gonna get met in a healthy way. And the rule of that heart part of us, unfortunately, is whatever I do to me, I'm gonna do to you.

    Whatever I do to me, I'm gonna do to my kids. And so if I'm ignoring or I've got a blind eye or I'm checked out on what I'm feeling and what I need, I'm gonna have a blind eye and be checked out on what my kids need. If I'm telling myself to suck it up, tough it out, pull myself up by my bootstraps, be a man, something, that's exactly what I'm gonna do to my kids, okay? But if I'm curious and asking myself like, well, what am I feeling? What do I need? And how do I ensure that need? I'll do that for my kids too, so yeah.

    Speaker 2 (11:11.308)

    So this is so helpful. By the way, how long are we gonna have to wait for this assessment? How soon? Because I need this, I need this.

    Yeah, we've actually got a guy, I'm so excited about this, who's done a lot of pun line work with me and he's finishing up his degree in psychology and he's going to come in and do an internship with us in the fall. And part of his specialty for his psychological thing was to develop these instruments to test that underneath the surface of the skin stuff. So I've got this book I hope to have out the beginning of next year, part of which will have this assessment that he's going to help us develop and really try to serve guys to know what's your baseline, where are you starting from?

    Well, that just means we'll have you back for round two as that launches. Awesome, I'd love that. That's great. So I guess my question, I didn't quite realize this, but it's kind of who God has made us to be in our strengths by question of like, what's going well and what are you kind of having focus on to work on? Is there also a chapter though, like the conversation with your kids, I'm like, hey, this chapter heading into the fall with these four systems, is there also, we look at it in that way of like, what areas do we need to put more attention to or is it not that kind of a framework?

    Yeah, no, I think, you know, unlike many personality assessments or typing systems, often the goal is, can be one of two things. It can be like, don't worry about your weaknesses, just focus on your strengths is one approach that a lot of these make. Or another one is, you know, just focus on becoming the healthiest version of your type. That's just who you are. And some of the deconstructing work I have to do with men and women that I work with,

    is I have to help people understand that these personality assessments and these typing systems cannot tell you who you are. They actually don't reveal your God design. All they reveal is who you had to become. So I wasn't born with these four letters or one of these nine types or these two letters on this disc profile, whatever it is, I wasn't born like that. Those are the predictable patterns of thinking and behaving that I took on to feel safe.

    Speaker 1 (13:14.122)

    or to experience meaning in the world. They are learned patterns. And so I learned to overemphasize and maybe overuse some and to under emphasize and to kind of bury others. I actually believe God's design for us is the integration of these four parts of our makeup. We are made to bring all of them to health, to maturity, to growth.

    Some of them are more intuitive to us than others because of our life experiences and these learned patterns. But ultimately the call, I think, is to integrate the four parts. And as Christians especially, I think this is what Jesus demonstrated. Like Jesus didn't have predictable patterns of thinking and behaving. He was very confusing if you look at his life, because it's like, you know, think about how those assessments work. It's gonna give us our type or something. It's like, well, how do you tend to act in this situation? How do you tend to respond?

    when this thing happens, how do you tend to think about this? What are your preferences with these things? And we have those answers because we are predictable, but Jesus would heal a guy this week and go, don't tell anybody, this is between you and me, you know? And then he'd heal a guy next week and he'd say, go tell your whole town what I've done for you here today. In one scene with oppressive religious leaders, he would point at them and say, you're a pit of vipers and you're whitewashed tombs, and then next week he...

    doesn't say anything, he stays silent and he writes in the dirt with his finger. And it's like, there's all these examples, right? There are times where the crowds would come to him and he would push out on a boat and he would generously and graciously give them his time. He would teach them. And there are other times that his disciples would say, there's a whole bunch of people coming and he'd go, let's walk to the other side of the lake quick. You know, let's get out of here. And it's like, who is this guy? One woman, he says, you're not worthy of the scraps that fall from my table. And then he spends hours with a...

    cast woman at a well. It's like, what is going on here? Jesus had these four aspects of his makeup attached, nourished, and integrated, and he knew which one needed to step forward and take the lead in this conversation or facing that challenge. When you think about the perfection of Christ, not just as a moral idea, like he just didn't sin or something, which is certainly true. His perfection is profound morally. But when you extend it past that,

    Speaker 1 (15:28.278)

    And you think he always had the right emotional energy. He always had the right facial expression or nonverbal communication. Like how amazing is the perfection of Christ? And it all extends back to the integration of these four parts. So that is the goal for me for disciples. That's the goal for me for dads is we've got to be working. Like we don't just settle, I'm just the soul to strength guy. I'm just gonna be that, like no, I've got to work to bring more heart.

    Good. Into my fathering, I've got to work to bring more strategic oversight, mind, into my fathering. Those are less intuitive for me, but to be the kind of holistic and full man that God has made me and called me to be for my kids, for my family, I've got to be working to integrate all four of these parts.

    Okay, that's super helpful. Thanks for painting another kind of brush on that. That's really helpful. I wanna go back in time to a sweet conversation with you and your daughter. before we hit that one, I'd love to know just present day, what is sparking joy in your heart? is it, and it could be related to fatherhood, but it doesn't have to be. I'm just curious, what's sparking joy these days?

    Yeah. What's sparking joy? See, I love this question because it's going to reveal my own deficiency. You know, that's a heart question. And I've already admitted and confessed that I'm a soul to strength guy. You know, my heart is not something I have to work really hard to actually be aware of what's happening in my heart. So I'll say this. My oldest son is one of the most inspiring people in my life. He's on the autism spectrum. He's 19 years old now. I watch him.

    wake up every day and try to make sense of a world that doesn't make sense to him, and then step into it courageously and face it courageously. And he challenges all of my instincts as a father, because it's just, it's not your typical way to be with somebody, father somebody, guide somebody, you know? And so he has been a key part of my own formation as a man, like shaping me and bringing more heart into play.

    Speaker 1 (17:30.946)

    I'll simply answer your question and say, watching him courageously show up to his life and having the privilege to kind of walk that and bring some guidance to it, but more just observe the spirit guide him and watch him push through obstacle and have breakthroughs. You're talking about a kid who was a little hesitant to get his driver's license. And I think he just, didn't want to people and wasn't certain about that.

    18 years old, we let him get through high school, graduated, 18 years old, he goes and he gets this driver's license. Going from like, I just really don't want to do this, I'll just, public transportation, whatever, to go from that to every day now he drives in Nashville rush hour up to the city and home in rush hour to go up to his trade school where he's studying machine tool engineering. What breakthroughs, because he was courageously willing to push through his discomforts and to try, and so I'd say that's what's...

    sparking the most joy for me right now, yeah.

    Thank you. Before I read what your daughter whispered to you before bed, tell me which daughter was it? Your older or younger daughter?

    Two sons, 19 and 17, and then just one daughter who's 14. This is a little more than 10 years ago. She's 14 now, and she was four years old at the time.

    Speaker 2 (18:44.876)

    long ago was this conversation?

    Speaker 2 (18:52.974)

    Okay, my youngest is four, my youngest of my four daughters. So I know that. Yeah, so here's the words at bedtime that she whispered to you. And this ties back to that heart conversation as well. She said this to you, hey dad, if I could line up all the dads in the world and I could pick a nice one or you, I'd still pick you. Can you tell us a little bit about what surrounded that and what that led to?

    the image.

    Speaker 2 (19:22.893)

    Yeah.

    So here's the hard thing about that is I wasn't some checked out deadbeat dad when she whispered that to me. I was very devoted as a father. I was very committed. I was very engaged. I was the guy that coached their sports teams, helped with homework. And part of my philosophy of fathering was a good dad's going to

    put that little girl on his shoulders and walk her up those stairs and read her a bedtime story and turn off those lights and lie with her till she falls asleep. I don't care how hard my day was, you know, that's what a dad is and my visionary guide's soul, and I'll find the strength to pull that off no matter how long my day was, right? So here I am, very devoted, very committed. That particular night though, lying with her while she fell asleep, her little voice emerges and sure enough,

    you know, she gives me this truth bomb that was truly an expression of her unconditional love for me. Because a four-year-old does not have a passive aggressive bone in their body. It's like that she was genuinely saying, dad, here's how much I love you, you know? And so I just kind of thought when she gave that, she's four, maybe she's having trouble, like I should probably give her a chance to backpedal out of that, right? I should probably give her a chance to reframe that. I just said something like, oh honey, is daddy not very nice?

    And she said, not really. She didn't backpedal at all. She was like, not really, but I'd still choose you, you know? And the hard truth for me, Jeff, at the moment, 10 years ago was, without exaggerating, I genuinely believe she may have been the only human being in my life that could have given me that kind of feedback. Like kind of, here's what it's like to be with you that wouldn't have caused me to become.

    Speaker 1 (21:06.648)

    kind of defensive or even more probable dismissive would have been more my style. Like that's your opinion or something like, I'm sorry, you feel that way or something like that. But I could not just kind of blow off the sentiments of my own sweet little girl. And that was the moment that caused me to look long and hard in the mirror and just ask the question, what the heck is wrong with me? You know, like I grew up in the church.

    I studied ministry formally, you know, and I've been this, you know, I was a pastor for 21 years before I started doing this. It's like, shouldn't I be the one with the answers? Shouldn't I be the one teaching everybody else how to live? Shouldn't I be the one experiencing inside of me the fruit of the Spirit, love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness and And if I'm honest, I was going through that list, very little of that list that I experienced with any kind of.

    frequency, consistency, like love. Don't feel very loved by others, know, respected or admired or whatever, maybe, but like loved, you know? I certainly don't feel a lot of love for others. People kind of tended to annoy me. On down the list, you asked earlier about joy, fleeting circumstantial happiness here and there, maybe. Joy, real joy, not really. Peace, anxious all the time, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Like how could this

    And that was the answer that I had to pursue.

    So I'd love to kind of double click on these two D words. know, dads being defensive.

    Speaker 2 (22:40.846)

    Dad's being dismissive. I know when you said those two, like that was response to anyone else, but maybe your four year old was able to break through with her sweetness. My six year old pulled me aside maybe a month ago after we were packing up two days in a row for summer camp. She's like, dad, you're a lot more calm today than you were yesterday. And truly it's same exact thing. Like her little sweetness gave me the benefit of the doubt. Instead of saying you were horrible yesterday, you were bossy and rigid and angry and sharp-fisted.

    with us, she said, you're a lot more calm today. So I like this defensiveness rises up very normal within me and dismissive of like, it's not an advocate deal. Like, like get over it. Like the dismissive. Would you coach me for a moment on these two, these two areas of defensiveness and being dismissive?

    Yes, we are talking about that heart part of the spiritual anatomy when we have this conversation and consider this question. And so one of the things that's true about that part of us is the heart part of us is where feelings live. And I don't know about you, but it's typical in our culture and our society to suppress, we're taught to suppress or to dismiss actually this part of us. Many of us, when we were having big feelings as a kid, for example, were probably sent to our room and not allowed to come out until what?

    Calm down.

    That's right. That's right. Like have a calm conversation or you stop crying or you can be more reasonable or something. And the subtle, perhaps unintended message that we all got as little boys and little girls was what's going to qualify you to rejoin the family? What's going to qualify you to be in the relationship? Is you can't be having. So we learn to dismiss ourselves. Those feelings very, very young. And again, we do to others what we do to ourselves. So if I'm dismissing

    Speaker 1 (24:31.04)

    my own feelings, my own needs, I am going to dismiss yours and instead tell you to suck it up, tough it out, whatever it is. So that's what's going on there. To fix it, interestingly enough, it's truly this principle in the Shema also of love your neighbor as yourself, what I do to me, I'm gonna do to you. So in order to fix that punitive kind of,

    defensive or dismissive response to my kids, the fix is I actually have to start tuning an ear, an attentive and a curious ear. That's on your website. That's a big value for you guys. A curious ear to myself when something's stirring in me, when I'm feeling frustrated, when I'm feeling thin, when I'm irritated, when I'm, you know, whatever it is, I have to turn that curious attention into my own heart and ask myself, where am I at?

    Like what's going on inside of me? What feelings are true in my chest? I don't get to choose what feelings I have. I only choose what I do with them. So honor them or dismiss them. And if I start to honor them instead of dismissing them, like if I stop sucking it up and powering through myself and I start to actually go, what is that? I'm afraid. I told my kid to turn off his video games, you know, 30 minutes ago and he's still playing them with Cheeto fingers. You know, and what do I do? I project into his future, he's 30.

    six years old, sitting in his apartment, three hours late for work, playing video games with Cheeto fingers. And so I start to, you know, engage him at this level of my unfelt, unnamed fear and fear when it's dishonored in me, when I'm dismissing or suppressing it, it doesn't go away. It devolves into anxiety.

    and control. Now I'm gonna try to control his life and motivate him externally, which is one of the most damaging things we can do to our kids. They have to find their internal motivation. And I start putting these hard lines in place and punitive responses when he doesn't do what I want and all these types of things. And it's incredibly destructive, right? So yeah.

    Speaker 2 (26:30.638)

    The idea of an area of my life being malnourished, I think this is the way you described it, is like, actually it's there, it's there, like I can grow this, I can bring more strength, and God's heart is that I would, and the area actually isn't my action to my little girls or my wife, the area is to myself. The upstream you're saying is understand that that emotion's okay, it's okay.

    I have a little emotions wheel, a feelings wheel so I can like help to put my finger on it. But this is, I have a lot of work to do in this area. So Jake, you're like, we're hitting topics that like, I know I have a lot of work to do because I, it's easier to skip working on myself and understanding and shelve that and show, try to show up. The short term is to show up for my girls, not for myself and to skip the first step of loving myself.

    Wait.

    Speaker 1 (27:24.226)

    There's no doubt, and again, we're trained from the time we're very, very young to do that in the classroom, in sports, even at church. It's like we get all this theology quoted to us, like we get Philippians quoted to us a lot. Jesus being in very nature God, to not consider equality with God something to be grasped, made himself nothing. He made himself nothing, taking the nature of servant being found in appearance as a man, homo-self, obedience to death, even death on the cross.

    Go and do likewise, you know? And it's kind of like we get this idea that I'm just supposed to dismiss myself, power through things, tough stuff out. And we take the passion of Christ, like the ultimate vision and purpose of His life to go to the cross for our sins, and we try to apply it to every mundane, minuscule moment of our life. And that's not the point of it. Jesus knew how to get, knew what He was feeling, and He knew how to get His needs met in a healthy way.

    He would go missing and they would be ticked. He'd show back up, he'd stumble back in like in a bathrobe missing his shoe with a cigarette dangling from his lip. Not really, that's probably sacrilegious, sorry. He'd show back up rejuvenated, right? And they would go, they confront him, where you been? We've been looking for you. And Jesus' response is, my bad, I'm supposed to be accessible 24 hours, I'll be sure you got my cell phone number next time so you can contact me if you need. He just goes, I've been with my father. Like I got bread you don't know about.

    They call him to come and heal Lazarus. Like Lazarus is sick, come right away. Four days later, he wasn't four days away. That was a decision like four days later and they shame him. Like, God, if you'd been here, if you'd only been here, and he cries and raise it. But he knew his mother and his brothers come to get him and take him home.

    And they're like, send him out here, we wanna talk to him. He doesn't even go to see them. He goes, he says to the messenger, go tell them I'm with my mother and I'm with my brothers. Can you imagine, like say that to your own mother? He knew what he was feeling. He knew that I asked for what he needed. Best example is in the garden, he's afraid, he's afraid. And he goes to his friends and he says, I need you guys, watch and pray with me.

    Speaker 1 (29:42.69)

    You know, it was precisely his attunement with himself, what he was feeling and the needs that were connected to those feelings and taking all of that seriously that allowed him to love others so well.

    Speaker 2 (29:59.81)

    Thank you so much for joining us for this first half of my conversation with Dr. Jake Smith. This second half, we are going to dive deep into three things that come after men. In fact, here's just a really quick clip from that next half of the conversation.

    That's what the grind, the smothering grind is pushing for. Burnout, flame out, or tap out, and he does not care which one. If we hit one of those, he wins and we become part of the 70 % who does not run our race and finish well.

    So make sure you join us next week, episode 399, the second half of my conversation. But for this week's notes, the transcript, the action step, the key points, it's all gonna be found at dadawesome.org slash podcast. And just look for episode 398. As a reminder, we're filling up quick with the Dad Awesome Accelerator coaching cohorts. You need to prayerfully apply like this week to join us. And there's just a few spots left. Go to dadawesome.org slash.

    coaching and would love for you to apply. Reach out to me if you have any questions. You can simply email awesome at dadawesome.org. Have a great week guys.

    • "Jesus didn't have predictable patterns of thinking and behaving."

    • "I could not blow off the sentiments of my own sweet little girl."

    • "Shouldn't I be experiencing the fruit of the Spirit with consistency?"

    • "We learn to dismiss our feelings very, very young."

    • "Fear, when dishonored, doesn't go away—it devolves into anxiety and control."

    • "Jesus knew what he was feeling and how to get his needs met."

    • "It was his attunement with himself that allowed him to love others well."

 

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399 | Seeing Your Kids, Feeling with Them, and Delighting in Who They Are (Dr. Jake Smith - Part 2)
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397 | Making Real Life More Compelling Than Screens, The Purpose of Fatherhood, and Lessons from Foster Care (Kieran Lenahan)