383 | From Fatherless to Faithful: Healing Pain, Breaking Cycles, and Pursuing Your Children's Hearts (Leo Clark)

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Episode Description

Growing up with a famous boxer father who never showed up for his games taught Leo Clark what it means to truly fight for the hearts of his children. In this powerful conversation, Leo shares how he's breaking generational cycles through his basketball ministry, intentional parenting, and the healing journey that transformed his ability to love. You'll hear how pain that isn't dealt with can block our capacity to parent well, and how God's restoration can create ripple effects that impact not just our own children, but countless others.

  • Leo Clark is the founder of Go Get It, a basketball training ministry that mentors young men on and off the court. Growing up as the son of a famous heavyweight boxer who was physically absent from his life, Leo has dedicated himself to breaking generational cycles and being fully present for his five children. His powerful testimony of healing and restoration was featured in episode three of the Wild at Heart documentary series. Leo lives in Austin, Texas with his wife Marianne and continues to impact countless young men through basketball, mentorship, and his passion for fatherhood.

    • Breaking generational cycles begins with healing your own pain and allowing God to father you first

    • A dad who fights for his kids shows up consistently, even when they try to push him away

    • Being intentional about prayer and writing down specific prayers for your children creates lasting impact

    • Your smile can be a gift that breaks down barriers and opens doors for meaningful connection

    • Pain that isn't dealt with limits your capacity to love well and be fully present for your children

    • The words you speak to your children become their inner voice—make them words of life

    • Creating a legacy of love requires intentional reflection and being willing to be vulnerable

  • Leo Clark [00:00:29] Because I'ma give it my all Here it is, God's blessed me with these four boys, and how can I not be there? How can I NOT show them? Cause I know what it's like to not have that. So if we're breaking the cycle, me and my older brother, Henry, used to talk about that all the time. It's like, nah, we are breaking this cycle. We are gonna impact the lives of our kids, but not only our kids. Others as well. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:01:05] Welcome back to Dad Awesome. Guys, this is episode 383, and I have Leo Clark joining me. Before I introduce Leo, quick shout out to my four daughters. If you missed last week's episode 382, it was a daughter takeover. My voice is not in any of it. My girls interviewed Justin Whitmill early about his new children's book, The Big Mess. So it's a shorter episode, it's like 25 minutes. In fact, today's episode's almost twice that long, a little bit longer episode, and you've gotta put up with my voice. So if you want the cuteness, go back to last week's episode. But you are not gonna be, my word, today's conversation, the direction, the depth, the stories, the impact, the can you believe how great God is? Look what God has done. In the life of Leo Clark. So you know Leo if you have watched the Wild at Heart, the series. So there's a series of documentary films. There's four of them, I believe. Leo's story is episode three of Wild at Hearts, the series, it's gonna be linked in the show notes, but his, he runs a basketball training ministry, an amazing ministry out of Austin, Texas. His dad was one of the top heavyweight fighters, boxers in the world. His story just threads from oh my goodness he didn't have a dad fighting for him to being the dad who is fighting for countless other young men even beyond his own children and a major turnaround story with his own son. So I'm so thankful you guys are listening today. I want to encourage as we head up to Father's Day, so the next like four weeks as we and review and a comment. The algorithms are real when it comes to podcasting on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and all the platforms. If you can leave a rating, a review, a comment, all three is the ideal. It's gonna help more dads hear about Dad Awesome. So that's my one ask for you guys as we head into today's conversations. Leave a rating. Leave a review. Leave a comment on whatever podcast platform you're listening. It can be short and sweet, but man, it helps more dads hear these conversations. So today, episode 383, My Conversation. With Leo Clark. Leo Clark joining me today for a dad-awesome conversation. Thanks for saying yes and hopping on with me. 

    Leo Clark [00:03:44] Man, thank you for having me. It's truly a joy already, just talking with you, Jeff, getting to know you. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:03:50] Well, the backstory, the back story is a mutual friend of ours, Pablo Sarone. Pablo brought you up in a conversation like three years ago. He's like, you got to get connected with Leo because he knows I'm a tall dude. You don't know this about me. I'm six foot seven. I'm, uh, I'm pretty tall, dude. I, I mean, okay. Basketball player. I, uh I like to get after it a little bit. And so he knew we had a little and then just the joy. I think he just knows that you live. Life with like, you're all in. He knows that about you. He knows that's certainly true about me. And he's like, You guys need to connect and then the deep passion for, for fatherhood. And then I got to watch, you know, this is just six, nine months ago, the release of the Wild at Heart series and your story being shared episode three of that series. So thank you for your, your story, your heart, your passion, your willing, like there's already a lot of the guys listening that have seen, but there's a bunch that haven't. So, so we're going to go all over the place in today's conversation. And I thought Leo, as a fun way to start, Dad Awesome is the name of the ministry I lead, the ministry you lead, the basketball training, discipleship coaching, it's called Go Get It, Go Get it. And I, I actually like the just talking about names and deeper meanings and deeper missions behind names. So first, I'll let you go. Talk a little bit about what's stirred up when you hear Dad Awesome. I'm gonna do the flip. Talk about Dad Awesome for a moment. What's stirred when you heard that name? Well, it's. 

    Leo Clark [00:05:13] The moment I heard that awesome, like, you know, when I got the email from you and first Pablo making the intro, I was like, okay, Pablo's making the interview, I got to listen. As you know Pablo, man, that dude is one of the most legit men of God I've ever been around and just been around him. There's a passion that you see when someone's truly walking with God and, you know, the scripture talks about you will know them by their fruit. Like when you look at his fruit, like I'm just like, oh man, I love it. I love it, right? And so. And I was like, that awesome, you know, and I started thinking like, you know, in Dallas, Texas, I got, you know, dude, awesome, right. And I'm thinking like do perfect. There you go. Do perfect. And I like, That's cool. Right. Um, but dad, awesome fatherhood to me is. I guess something that I'm extremely passionate about, growing up without a dad, and many know some of my story. One of the things that I told my wife when we got married is, listen, I said, the one thing I'm gonna tell you that no matter what, that's a non-negotiable, is I'm going to be there for my kids. So, there's no career that's gonna supersede my relationship with my kids, and I said her and I have approached our marriage like that. And in being there for each other, but also making sure we're there for our kids. Like, I don't like my son, LJ, for example, like I haven't missed not one of his games in pretty much his entire basketball career. Right. And so for me, that's the opposite where my dad came. To one game and that was the game I was sitting the bench, right? And so you look at this thing. So when I think that awesome, I just, I was like, hold up, but I got to hear more about this. So I went on the website, looked at some stuff and I'm like, man, this is this is cool. This is what we need more of. My dad's. Like porn and the other dads to impact the next generation. Man, I so so important and there's so many fatherless young men out there. And even when the fathers are in the home, some of the dads don't know how to be dads because they haven't been fathered. And so when I think about that term, Dad Awesome, man, listen, you got me pumped up right now. Like, come on, I gotta hear more. I'm definitely gonna take a trip to Florida now. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:07:25] Here we go. Well, you got me pumped up. And I actually, when I hear, go get it, your mission, and I know it started roughly eight, eight years ago, nine years ago with your friend. When I actually see the smiles and the shiny eyes of these kids who their hands were in the middle of three, two, one, they're all yelling, go, get it. So I've seen them right now as I hear. But the idea of a perspective, a posture of I'm gonna get after it. I'm not gonna wait to see what comes my way. I'm going to wait and just take the easy road. Go get it doesn't say easy road, it's like, no, I'm actually gonna, I am going to press into levels of pain, discomfort. There's gonna probably be some tears. There's going to be a little bit of a Teddy Roosevelt. Maybe my face is marred with blood and sweat and tears in the arena, right? I mean, you guys know this quote. So that's what stirred up in me. Add onto that though, when you hear go get it, what's stirred up in your heart. 

    Leo Clark [00:08:25] And even with the name, and as a matter of fact, I'm gonna talk to Rich later in the day, because him and I were just talking, and we knew we wanted something to be action related. You know, it's great to have some name, you know, you hear an NBA team, or some pro team, Golden State Warriors, or something like that, because it's based on the Bay Area, the Golden State, and you look at it, it was like, okay, that's cool, but what is the action behind that? As we as we were training kids in Kosovo, I was like man, let's go. Let's go Let's get after let's Go and so the word go and then it's like what is it? What is it for each person in life? Like what is like you even say go get it as a dad How do I go get as a Dad? How do i become the best dad I could possibly be you know? Buddy mine has this term BYOG. It's like be your own goat Like, and I'm not talking about in a religious, you know, sometimes people are like, oh, man, you're going to be trying to be this. No, no, no. We are walking with God. But what is, how has God wired you uniquely? And then how do you be your own goat? What is the best you can possibly be? And what do I need to do to get there? I have to sow seeds. Like I have to, one way or another, what are the seeds that I'm sowing on a day-to-day basis to be the best man of God? I can be the be the the best dad. I can the best husband. What are those seeds? We have to go get that. Whatever it is, we have to get it. Wow. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:09:50] Yes greatest of all time. Yes, and we can because God is honored by that. Your own goat. I love it. Okay, the current chapter for you, and then we're gonna jump back in time, but the current Chapter of dad life with your daughter and four sons. By the way, I didn't even mention, I've got four little girls, so I'm coming at it from the others. Yeah, so your youngest though is, my oldest is 11, your youngest is, Did you say 14, 15? 15, 15. 15, right on. So yeah, paint a picture a little bit of the current chapter of dad life. 

    Leo Clark [00:10:24] Man, in a current picture, or let's just see, almost every weekend or every other weekend, we're in a tournament somewhere playing, whether Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Austin, I mean, we're all over the state of Texas because of these different age groups. It's like, for example, Saturday, I was just in Dallas taking my oldest, my boy, LJ, Marion and I, our oldest boy, LJ to visit a college out there that he was working out for. And I'm like, and then I'm fine with it. And he's sleep going up and he's asleep going back. And I was over here like, hold up, you have a license, you have, I was about to say, let me, let dad get some rest time. 

    Trailer [00:11:03] Yeah, help me drive. 

    Leo Clark [00:11:05] And I'm sitting there like, you know what, I won't get these moments back. So you know, even watching him sleep something as simple as that, him and I grabbing a meal, him and just talking about the experience and how can I help you like, he did okay, but he knows he can do better. But it's one of the cool things is the coach is talking to us after and the coach He's like, hey. We want to see him again against our better competition. And a lot of these kids here, they're trying out and I want to him again, he said, but we see that he can play. And when I think about LJ, his journey's been so, it's been a lot different than his brother's. And when say that is, he's definitely been a late bloomer. But in the last year, I mean, this kid went from barely being able to dunk, to dunking like, showed like, show ducks and you're just like man hold up what just happened there and and if you know my wife is five five three and a half um she says five four so i'm gonna give her five four um and uh i'm about six two and i remember my boy eldest is dad i'm a beast you know six four six five and i'm like son like hey i'm not gonna Maybe, I'm not gonna tell you no. And he's like, no, I I'm praying about it. I'm asking God. And you know, he's six, four. So it's. I mean, you see my boys stand next to my wife, all of them, so I have 6'4", 6' 4", and the youngest is about 6' 2", and it's hilarious watching it, and they all passed their older brother, Nate, and Nate's looking at them like, man, what's going on? Like, what happened? And I said, hey, Nate. I think they were praying a little bit more, so we joked about that some. It's power, yeah. Power and prayer. They're a testament of praying, because if you look at it genetically, the mom height is not there, nowhere in her family. So, so, so that there's a lot of a lot of that where when it comes to the sand is a ministry in basketball. Yeah. And that is a lot to see my season right now. Marianne and I and my wife is man, she's such a trooper. She's like. I'm a mama to these boys, and I'm going to be at every game, and she's staring, cheering. I cannot put her on a camera to record games because of her energy and her excitement. She's like, can you mute that? And I'm like, honey. I was like, but I got to show the parents. They got to hear the kids talking. She was like no, I don't want to. So she doesn't really record games anymore, but I have a lot of fun with it. But I love her passion for our kids. So, I would say a lot of basketball and a lot of mentorship and a lotta what I would say windshield time with the boys. So, we get some cool conversations. Like that is our time and usually I end up with some other kids on the team traveling. I have this Sprinter van that these kids copy and Coach can arrive with you and like, come on man, that's what this van is for. Let's go and. So development, coaching, mentorship, and speaking in different places. Like I'm gearing up to speak at a church in a couple of weeks here. And walking into that is different for me. I haven't done a ton of that, even doing this podcast, right? Like it's the second one that I've done from the Wild at Heart documentary, documentary, docu-series or series, as John will say it. And so I'm like, Lord, use it, like use it. So, I don't know how that answers the season life, man. My boys are just. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:14:53] And for everyone listening that wants to see a little bit of the chapter two or three years ago when it was filmed, you're going to actually see some of that, the backyard. And then also, I mean, your 6'2", that's impressive because there's some good shots of you, clips of you dunking in the six to you. I'm six, seven, and I. There's not soaring like I saw. You got some hops, Leo. So let's talk basketball one little step further right. Well, we'll at least launch into the next question from the Golden State Warriors you brought up as a name, the Warriors. Names are powerful and a name and a description that you described your dad as being your hero as a kid and he was a warrior, but then you added You added the, he didn't know how to be a warrior or a fighter, you know, he's a, he has a prize. He's a world renowned boxer, fighter, and yet he couldn't fight for the heart of his son. Didn't know to be warrior to fight and pursue the heart his son and that is, I'm not gonna forget that. You sharing that, but can you take us into your story a little bit around being a kid. With your dad, the neighbor boys know and look out for my dad. And, and, uh, and then just, but about again, him not knowing how to come after your heart. 

    Leo Clark [00:16:16] Yeah, you know, it's one of those, man, I sit back when I look at it, when you pose that question, the first thing that came to my mind was when it was at Susan B. Anthony Elementary School and my dad was coming to do an autograph signing. And you see these people, like they're looking at your dad as like this celebrity, right? The celebrity type and like, oh man, he's this boxer, he was in his ride ups, he was a Golden Gloves champion in California. At that time, I think he was he was I forget where he was right my brother I thought was fifth and where my brother say somewhere on fourth And so we're trying to get all that like that story straight for heavyweights, right? And you're looking at this and I'm like, that's my dad, right the the he's do this thing where we're He's on all fours and we're on his back and he would kind of we trying to hang on like like call like Horsey ride so I remember these things and I think it like man This is going to be cool to go through this journey with my dad like this, right? And then... And so in not understanding, and so I don't know how much is, we recorded some of it, but I know it didn't make it to the documentary. And so my mom shared a little bit of the story where it was, so when Muhammad Ali fought George Foreman in Africa, my dad was the fight before the main event. So he fought a guy by the name of Bill McMurray, who, Bill McMurry. Literally them and my dad they lived across the street from each other. He became if anybody talks about my uncle He became like a father figure to me Even though he wasn't a blood relative like he was I would consider him an uncle right and so Long story short is is you have this my dad. They're in Africa one when George Foreman got injured Back then it wasn't like you can fly back to the states and come back every fighter had to stay in Africa for like I think it was like six to eight months you couldn't come back like it wasn't like hey we're gonna reschedule this you guys go home you start training it's like no you're staying in Africa and so uh my mom was saying that's when things started to go you know change with my dad and so I looked back at it and I was really young then so I really didn't know what was going on and all I know is like my dad's not here So he's often, you know... In another country and stuff like that. And you're like, man, all right, cool. And he gets back, he doesn't come back to our home. He's, you know, we're at this point in time we had moved to Sacramento. We was all born in San Francisco, was in Sacramento. My mom really didn't like the cold of the Bay area. And so we find ourselves in Sacramento, my dad's in San Fransisco training and My mom was bringing us down for a visit and, you know, my mom found evidence of like, you know, where she's like, hey, tell my older brother, you take the boys down to the car. I see some other woman's clothing, a lot of, so you run into that and you know I just, I just heard about this, like during some, some of the filming or after, right? Here I am now. Um, later in life and you're finding this stuff out and you like, man, okay, this is This is deeper. Now, at the same time, my mom was still fighting for the marriage. Because my mom saw our kids and she was like, I'll do whatever I can to fight for this. And my mom wasn't the fighter, and my dad wasn't a fighter for our hearts. And so, there's definitely was a lot of resentment. Like, you know, I would hear from family members, man, your dad's this, your Dad's that. I'm like, that's cool. But I don't know that that. You're saying he's saying all these good things about you, but he's never been at any of my games. Like he's ever been there to say, hey man, how are you doing? How can I help you? What are you struggling with? Those type of questions. You know, how do you talk to people? And these things that I, even the boxing part, like a lot of the boxing, I learned from my brother, because where we grew up, like you had to be able to, you know, defend yourself and. And my brother was like, man, you're going to learn. We're going teach you. Because I got a chance to be around that a little bit more. But I was like how cool would it be to learn from my dad? And so not being able to get that from him, it still leads me back to like, man, here it is, God's blessed me with these four boys. It's like, how can I not be there? How can I no show them? Because I know what it's like. To not have that. So we're breaking the cycle. Me and my older brother, Henry, used to talk about that all the time. It's like, nah, we are breaking this cycle. We are gonna impact the lives of our kids, but not only our kids. Others as well. And so that's, a lot of that stirs in me, right? Really? And it goes back to even the dad awesome, right. Like, what does that look like, right, really? What does that looks like? And we wanna model that. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:21:32] We have a framework at Dad Awesome around fight or flight and a dad who fights for their kids. A dad who fight is pursuing their hearts, is pressing in, is apologizing when he falls in his face or says something that like a dad who fights is actually moving towards closer proximity and closer heart connection even through. Um, age moments when kids are developing and pushing back a little bit against their parents, uh, the dad who, um, takes flight. So a fighting dad is not fighting with harm. It's fighting with, oh, it's all good. A dad who fights for their family. Um, a dad who takes flight is either physically they've left, like, you know, tragically your dad did, he left physically. Um, but a lot of dads can leave, um their heart, they can play it safe and retreat. With a heart to video games or to pornography or to work. Work's probably the most common, right? Or to hobbies or to affairs or secret life. Like they can, you can, it can be minor or it can major things, but it all hurts when a dad takes flight. I'd love to hear just even another round of what does that stir up in you when you hear about the fight or flight framework. 

    Leo Clark [00:22:55] Man, as I sit here, I'm like... I see it all around when I'm coaching in sports, and I see the dads that are present, I see the dads involved, I the dads who come to practice. We welcome parents to come to practices, which is sometimes unique. When I say that is where sometimes coaches don't want the parents around because they may want to scream and yell at the kid and da-da-da. Right? It's like, nah, man, we're going to... We're going to show you mentorship, how we're mentoring kids while you're watching, right? And so when I see the dads that are there, like I just, like, I think it's awesome, right. It's not that some of the dads can't be there. Sometimes the moms have to drop them off and I'm totally fine with that. I get it. Right. Like, but when you see it, you understand that fight or flight, right, like it was in and what does it look like to, like you said, fight, like, right like, sometimes like I'm at a stage with teenage boys, like man, They wanna do their own thing sometimes, like that. I don't care how much you know, we really don't wanna hear it. We got this, we got this. And sometimes I sit there and I'm like, I know how to help them. I know to give them the wisdom. But how do I get through to them in a way that they're willing to listen? And no matter how many times they give me the Heisman in the stiff form, I'm not going anywhere. So you're just like. I love you, but you're kind of stuck with me, son. So you may not appreciate it now or understand it now, but you will eventually, right? Because I've seen it. Like I've see it in, you know, Nate and I are at that dynamic where Nate and I now, Nate's like, man, I didn't realize what I had when I was in high school. He says, now I'm like, I get it. So our conversations are totally different now. And so we get to have these these adventures, so to speak, is like Nate's teaching me about guns now. I didn't grow up learning about this stuff. So that's a cool dynamic, that he gets to father me into that. Like, you know, he gifted me my first handgun, you know? And I was over there like, man, this is a... And he's like, yeah, Deb, we gotta learn how to do it. He got it set up for you. He got a little sight on there for me. He hooked me up with a light. And it was like, so stuff like that from now. These different dynamics that if I didn't fight we wouldn't have these moments and and here's one of the things that that um I have these little five by seven cards and they got like different things like written on them I got them all over I I got like a bunch of them so I'll just tell you so in these five by seven cards there's two things that I have on these and some of these things are old some of them are dated 2001 some of my right dates on them and with if it's a prayer For each of my kids there's been different prayers and some of them I gotta go find, I don't know where they're at when we moved and I've had different prayers and I just kept praying them, like for my daughter. One of the prayers I have for my daugher and I showed it to her and she laughed. I said to God, protect her and bring her a husband that they get to wait for each other. And I'm hearing when I say this, right? And without going back into that dynamic of what my daughter grew up in, that is an absolute, it's powerful that her and her husband waited for each other. Like, and it's just like to me, I'm like, me growing up, memories differ with me. You know, me, where you get the judgment of having kids out of wedlock, right. And everybody's like, ah, look at you, whether it's. From the church or outside the church or in the church, doesn't matter. There's gonna be that judgment. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. I know who I am in Christ now. I can handle that now. Early on I couldn't. It was a lot of guilt, a lot shame, and God comes and brings that restoration. So fighting for stuff like that, something that's similar is like, I'm gonna write this prayer. I may not be with you on a day-to-day basis. My beautiful daughter Brianna, I may not be with you on the database, but I'm going to pray for you. I'm gonna fight for you." And now you fast forward. Here it is. We have this incredible relationship where we're talking like every other day or texting and it's just, you can't script some of that stuff. And so when I think about that, I go into that fight, fight, and there's so many ways we can do that. Um, but that's an example, my five last seven cards. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:27:44] And that practical, that's transportable. Any of us can take that concept and write prayers on cards and throw a date and have a stack of like, I've been praying that a dad who fights is a dad in praise, but with the long game in mind. And you mentioned in another interview, I think this one was with Arnold and John Eldridge, you said that you did not have the ability to love. Because pain was at the forefront. And as you're talking, you got your three younger boys, and then you've got a son, a daughter who are older that were born before you were married. The idea of pain causing separation from these kids that you love dearly, but pain, I just wanna like dial in on a scene from the series. You're on the basketball court with lightning in the background. There's lightning, like intense lightning in the background and you're with your son experiencing a conversation, a healing conversation, a deep heart connection conversation. And I think you are even between moments of talking, you're shooting hoops, which is good for dudes, a good for guys to like shoot a little bit. But the lightning, there's a tension and a. There's a force required to, and the release is these lightning bolts, these powerful lightning bolts. And, and, uh, our journey as dads, none of us are walking out a perfect, and, you know, you mentioned dude, perfect dad, perfect, none of us, none us, instead of God in heaven. So of course there's going to be rubs and hurts and pains and, and you, there was trans, um, healing, forgiveness, God had to do something and you to go. To get you to go back to your daughter, your son, and seek some of that rekindling of love and pursuit and re-fighting. You almost like, you missed a chapter of fighting for them and then get you brought. So that's just me kind of saying, take that wherever you want to go, Leo, but I'm just grateful, I'm grateful for you. 

    Leo Clark [00:29:56] Man, thank you. Here's, and I just sit there and so many emotions pop up in that, right? Cause you got to say that. How can you love if you feel like you haven't experienced love? And I'm talking about that, especially the fatherly love. My mom was incredible. My mom, like I sit there and one of the things you learn, which is I say sometimes unfortunate is a lot of kids that grow up in an inner city is they're the fatherless. The fatherless generation. And I I'm kind of tired of like, I'm like, man, let's do something about this. How do we change this? Well, we have to raise young men up so they know how to be fatherless That's just the bottom line. They have to raise up understanding how to be loved so they can love. If you've never been loved, how can you really show love, right? You just don't, you don't know it. You don't have to model it. But even when you think about me and Nate in a part of the series, the story as they were sharing it, there was a partner that didn't even click in me that heard him. And yes, we're having this incredible moment on film. You know, after him seeing the film, one of the talks that we had after was, and I didn't even realize my dad wasn't there for my birth. So you put this in perspective, like, yeah, you have this great series in the short, this story that's impacting others. But my son's like, hold up, hold on, man. Like I knew you and my mom were together. But when I was born, you weren't there. And this is you're talking about that for he's twenty seven out that hit him probably harder than anything. So me and him had to have a talk about that. And so and I remember him and I talking and some of the stuff I'll just keep between him and I, but it was such a powerful moment because it's like, son, share your heart. There's nothing I can do to go back and change what happened in the past. I said, but I want you to share your heart because that's where healing comes from. I said I didn't have healing until I was willing to share my heart, but I wasn't willing to show my heart until somebody came in that I trusted. And they showed me trust by their actions. They modeled it, right? And so. The man by the name of John Ballew who sold him to me. And he was one of the first guys that I opened up to about the pain and what I went through and all this kind of stuff and my dad not being there. And so the countless stories with him helped me receive love for him. Because I mean, here's this guy, he invited me to live with him. And it happened to me twice where two mentors of mine Invited me to live with their families before I got married and you know, it's so it's just and I shared this in another With somebody before who did I share this what I'm trying to remember in the story I was sharing is like I hadn't been invited to stay the night And at somebody's house that had opposite skin color to me Like we'll just keep it like that, right? Like if I don't want to like I don't If anybody that knows me, I cannot stand when people go into People playing the race car. That's that's so not me because I'm sitting there like at the end of the day is We live in a world of sin and we know that we have a sin problem. We don't have a race problem. We have a sim problem Love perfect love casts out all fear and I just you know My amazing grandmother used to tell me that i'm going to serve you as if i'm serving christ And my grandmother's story is is is so powerful. I used to sit and listen to her stories and This woman, if you ever seen the movie The Help, my grandmother, that's what she did in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, she was a maid. And she would go and clean and she would walk back home and the lady she worked for into buying her a car. And when the lady passed away, and this was like in the early 70s, this lady left my grandmother like over 100,000, which today's time would be equivalent of what? I mean, I don't know, 800,000 500,000 who knows, And one of the things that that lady said was this lady loved me like I was one of her own now I don't know if you know you if anybody has any idea about the south in louisiana I mean the segregation and the stuff they had to go through was a lot different than what we're going through now Like they've been through some stuff and so when these Men invited me to their homes like that was like a it was like an icebreaker, right? It was a thing of like hold up. I trust you enough to bring it to my homes. And I'm not saying everybody's supposed to do that. You've got to be led by God, and it was absolutely powerful. And each of these men taught me something, and they're still in my life. And Jerry, his son, Hudson, and I, we're supposed to be meeting either this week or next week. He's helping me, even with the... Navigating the homeschool world and nonprofits because the stuff that he knows about this like and he was he came like a little brother to me and now he's doing these incredible things and he's like you don't know how you impacted my life well his dad while his dad was impacted my life he says i was impacting his life and we got some cool stories from that where his dad says hey i want you guys are gonna go buy a used car together you guys go work the deal and i go with hudson and we're sitting there and we're telling the guy hey man we're brothers, and a guy looking at them and they're like... Nah, y'all don't look like brothers. But these moments, right? If, in order for us to, like you hear this word change, how do we create change? Man, love. Love, and it's, you see me smile, that's not an accident. Like my grandmother said, your smile is a gift to break down barriers. So I'll be in stores and I'll just be hey, how you doing people like what's going on? And it's in a diffuse whether you may have something you may look at the color of my skin You may feel a certain way and you don't have to you don't t have to like me You don't I know who I am, but I say this The reason why I say is because it's like man My smile I know is a gift from god and I want to use it to glorify him and I want to use that to impact others, right? And if I can smile and break down a barrier where you and I can have a conversation, then awesome. And I would, more of the world doing that, more of men doing that. Like we don't have to put on this false facade. You know, you hear these guys all mean mugging and I'm like. What do you mean bugging for? What are you trying to prove? What, who's giving you a trophy for? Like you thinking you're the toughest guy in the world. Like, right? But how do we love others well? How do we others well. So I know there's a lot within that and I don't know where it was supposed to go, but I'm like, hey, here it is. I don't know where it was supposed to go, but I'm like, hey, here it is. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:37:06] My favorite part about these podcast conversations is you just never know where. You stirred up though, there's a pastor that I just have such respect for, and she says, I wanna get to the rocking chair with love on my heart. And I know that kind of legacy thinking, what do I want friends, relatives, nieces, nephews? Players on your team to say at your funeral someday. I think that that framework of I want to get to the rocket show with love on my heart versus become more jaded and crusty and edgy and unforgiveness and resentment, right? That's the default in the world today is to get a little more mean as you get older. And I see that that's been true in your life from knowing your story from preparing for this conversation, our chat today. I know that you're actually growing in love. There's more love on your heart today than there was 10 years ago. And I think. Experiencing healing from past pain. Release, forgiveness is a part of that. And one other specific comment that you made in another interview was a man who never deals with his pain, how can he be there for his kids? If you don't deal with, it's just a different angle on the other quote that I already read. But to end our time together today, Leo, I wanted to say thank you for shining, for your shiny eyes, for the love that's on your heart, for the, that you're just like. Dishing out in bucket loads, right? To all your players and the parents and your own kids. And I'm so grateful for you. What would you share though to inspire a dad who actually is, he's got pain that hasn't been dealt with and he's feeling the weight of it. How would you encourage them to just be curious, be courageous to move into healing? 

    Leo Clark [00:39:07] I do this thing when I tell kids that I work with, intentional reflection, okay? And if you've ever been in any wall to heart event, you know, John says, go back to the eight-year-old boy and where was God in that moment, right? And so I, weekly, usually on Fridays, I intentionally reflect on my week, on my month, but it's why I go back, like, okay, where was god in these different moments? And when I go to that eight-years-old-boy, You know, I go back to like, man, I was in the garage working on cars with my Uncle Bill, who fought against my dad in a fight in Africa. Here's this guy is like, hey, this kid needs a father. Let me go and teach him how to work on cars. So I learned how to working on car with my uncle Bill. And so, and I wanna tie this all in is, When we can go back to a moment where we were loved, it begins to break down the barriers, right? Because it's, when your heart is hardened, because people are gonna, no matter how good we do in our ministries, right, whatever that looks like, whatever somebody says, there's somebody that's not gonna agree with you. There's somebody that's gonna be mad at you and they're gonna say things. I mean, it's like, there are some times where it's like if a kid doesn't get a certain amount of minutes And. I can explain to the parent any kind of way. It's like, you're the bad guy. It's your fault. I'm not going to. And you're navigating it. And I find myself like, how do I get through to this kid? Even though. There's this barrier in the way and who knows what the story of the father is a story of that mother On what they went through when they were teenage boys and they had a coach that may have bashed him or beat him up There's so many different things that we may go through as people and it's like But it's a thing that i'm constantly reminded of and and hopefully this ties in where My mom and my grandmother used to say love without a hook Okay, meaning that i'M gonna love without looking for something in return. Okay. And a lot of times we live in the world, it's like, what can you do for me? Like, you know, even when I was in Hollywood, it's, like, hey, man, who's your agent? Can you hook me up with your agent. It's like no, not how you're doing. What's your, what's going on in your career? You know, what are the struggles you're facing? None of that. She was like, man. How can you help me? Right. Even in the, in the basketball world, it's you know you get people come to Rich and I and are like, man, I mean, you guys are good trainers or can I, you know can I get free lessons or you name it. And sometimes you wanna put up these guards and you're like, no. The moment I put up this guards, I'm going back to the old, as opposed to saying, I gotta be okay. People are gonna try to hurt me, okay? But I can't stop loving because they're trying to hurt me because I'm not loving because it's conditional. Like that unconditional love, that's not easy. And I don't want to pay like, I don't hear what, and for anybody who's listening, it's not easier when you've been hurt. It's not. But the power of forgiveness, when you can forgive and be like, you know what? It's okay, that person, they would probably hurt him. Why did they do this to me? It's like, my dad, why didn't my dad leave? Well, my Dad didn't have a dad around. I found out about that later. My dad's dad passed away when he was like eight. He became like this father figure in his household. He became the guy that was the breadwinner. And so here he is, he's trying to save a family through income, money, and all this kind of stuff. And then, and he didn't know how to save his kids. He didn't how to love his kids because he hadn't been. Here's this, you asked this guy to be a father who's never been loved and who's ever been fathered. That is so. One, remove the false expectations. If you haven't been fathered first, man, let's be fathered by God. And it's, we have to be father by God first. And then the prayer is, God, bring men in my life that can father me. That was my prayer, because my first boot camp I went to with Wilder Heart is I came kicking and screaming. I didn't want to go. Like my buddy, like my buddy Rick Henney was like, yo man, he called my wife and was basically like, Leo keeps giving me these excuses. Like I had some excuses, like I'm good, I'm, hey man, we just had, you know, our second child buddy. I'm not gonna be able to make it. I'm never gonna break away. And I just remember him calling me and says, hey, hey, you're good to go. Your ticket is taken care of. You're already registered. I said, register for what? He's like, I need you to be in Colorado at this time. And I'm like, now for me, okay. Going to Colorado and Crooked Creek Ranch, I've never experienced anything like that. So, you know, that was my first time in Colorado and, you know, being up in the Rockies and driving through. I'm on this bus, my first experience on these bus with all these men that I don't know. And you're about to put me in a dorm room with a bunch of people that I I don't know. And here I am. I'm just this guarded guy. So I was I went there guarded. And I'm like, I was like, ah, step forward, box, you know, boxing you out. Like, you're not going to get close to me. And it was a session that I just I couldn't get out my chair. And there was a there was a man who did not know me. Which is this is once again, God knows God is amazing. Our father is amazing guy comes to me and starts apologizing to. I'm sorry I wasn't there for your games. I'm Sorry I left you when you was young. And I'm like, I don't know this guy from that. I still don't even know where this guy is today. This, when I say I was like balling, I'm not a public cry. I wasn't a public crier. I am, you know, I do it now occasionally, right? But you were not gonna, I was now like ballin', ballin'. And so there was this toughness that I was hiding behind. Even my smile I was hiding man. I was using it for a different reason to hide the pain. Yeah, and in this moment Man, God be in a chip away in the soft in my heart and in that moment God was freeing me so I can receive one his love He the example through this man, right? God is bringing this mess apologize and I'm like and it's getting this guy just hugs me He's like, it's gonna be okay. I'm telling a man that's not my dad, my dad had already passed away at this time, and I'm tellin' him, man, I forgive you. And that was the beginning of the breaking. And now it's like this man offered love. Now my ears and my eyes was open to the rest of the message that was being offered here at boot camp. I got to find one of my old journals where they had a panel at this time and they were doing this interview setting and these men were talking and God said, write in your journal, one day I'm going to use your story to impact others. And I'm like, what? My story, like, oh, Lord, you don't want to share my story. Like, no, you know, you're not about to do that. I'm arguing with the Father right now. I was like, Lord my story, no. My story's not a good story to share to anybody, right? And so we don't know. You fast forward 10 years and here we are, right. And so one, we have to get the healing. We have to the healing, one, my prayer was God soften my heart. So I can receive your love. Once I can recieve your love, I can receive love from others. And I got to be OK with like that. Even though you may try to hurt me, because I've been hurt, I know what this is like. Because I'm healed and fathered by God, the hurt doesn't hurt the same. It just, the betrayal doesn't feel the same, because I know who I am in my father's eyes. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:47:34] Leo, if you had any idea, you truly don't know, and neither does that man who spoke words of life over you and was God's mouthpiece, the ripple effects of that softening, that forgiveness, that encounter of God as your father, but also even your earthly father who had already passed, the ripples effects to your five kids, your wife. Countless, hundreds, thousands of athletes, go get it, go get it. And now the tens of thousands throughout at heart through sharing your story and then the thousands through Dad Awesome right now. And it's just like, you have no idea. We just don't know what a willingness to, it takes, I mean, it take courage to step in, to move towards pain, to trust that God's gonna take the weight of that pain. So I just celebrate the little fraction of that ripple that I can see right now. I can it, I celebrate. Cause I know it's just a tiny fraction. In heaven, you'll get to really like the party of celebrating the full extent of the ripple and not from a pride side, from a look what God did through this ripple. Leo, I wanted to ask you, would you be willing to pray over all the dads from Dad Awesome that are listening? 

    Leo Clark [00:48:59] Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, Father, Father... We absolutely love you and we thank you for these opportunities that we get to come together as men. Father, I just pray over the hearts of every single man that's gonna listen to this. Father, pray that you prepare their hearts. I pray that You soften their hearts, I pray you massage and bring healing to their hearts Father, ultimately. Man when a father is healed you know as Jeff was saying there's ripple effect there's a powerful ripple effect of impact When you just come and bring full healing and restoration to our hearts. The impact of lives through young men and young women that get to be touched by their fathers is so kingdom, it's so powerful, Father. So Lord, I pray that you go before Jeff and I, Father God, and just, man, let this minister, Father, use our stories. Use the stories that are gonna be listening to this to impact the lives of the world, Lord Jesus. And we thank you. We thank you ahead of time for what you're going to do and what you are already doing. We just praise you and we just give you all the glory, Father. And I seal this prayer in the blood and the name of Jesus. Amen. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:50:48] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 383 with Leo Clark. Guys, the show notes, all the links that we talked about, the top takeaways, the transcripts, it's all gonna be found at dadawesome.org slash podcast. And just look for episode three hundred and eighty three. I want to encourage you guys, if you've listened to the intro, I asked for a rating, a review and a comment to help with all the different podcast platforms, more dads find dad awesome. We're just asking, would you leave a rating and a review and a comments on whatever platform you listen on? That's going to help more dads experience these kinds of conversations. So thanks for helping us out as we're heading into Father's Day. We're really encouraging you guys to leave those ratings, reviews, comments. Let's be dads of action. Let's dad who takes something, something from today's conversation. Being dad awesome means we have a bias towards action versus good intent. So let's pray, Holy Spirit, guide us. How can we press in? How can lead? How can be a dad who shows change and a moving towards our kids this week? Guide us, we pray, in Jesus' name, amen. Have a great week, guys. 

    • [00:06:57] "Here it is, God's blessed me with these four boys, and how can I not be there? How can I NOT show them? Cause I know what it's like to not have that. So if we're breaking the cycle, me and my older brother, Henry, used to talk about that all the time. It's like, nah, we are breaking this cycle."

    • [00:21:31] "My dad was a warrior, but he couldn't fight for the heart of his son. He was a world renowned boxer, fighter, and yet he couldn't fight for the heart of his son and didn't know to be warrior to fight and pursue the heart of his son."

    • [00:27:43] "I have these little five by seven cards with different prayers written on them for each of my kids. I may not be with you on a day-to-day basis, my beautiful daughter Brianna, but I'm going to pray for you. I'm gonna fight for you."

    • [00:47:19] "My prayer was God soften my heart so I can receive your love. Once I can receive your love, I can receive love from others. And I got to be OK with that. Even though you may try to hurt me, because I've been hurt, I know what this is like. Because I'm healed and fathered by God, the hurt doesn't hurt the same."

    • [00:37:05] "In order for us to create change—man, love. Love is the answer. My grandmother said, your smile is a gift to break down barriers. So I'll be in stores and I'll just be smiling, and people are like 'what's going on?' It diffuses whether you may look at the color of my skin and feel a certain way."

 

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