382 | Kids Takeover: Dessert Disasters, Sibling Squabbles, and Finding Joy in The Big Mess (Justin Whitmel Earley)

Experiencing God's LoveBrotherhood & Mentorship
Written By Jeff Zaugg

The Zaugg girls take over the podcast! In this special episode, Justin Whitmel Earley joins the four sisters to discuss his delightful new children's book, "The Big Mess." Discover why creating giant desserts (and sometimes destroying them) can teach profound lessons about forgiveness, sibling relationships, and finding God in the beautiful chaos of family life. Plus, hear why the girls are planning their own rooftop cookie adventure and how throwing pancakes across the kitchen can become a cherished family tradition.

  • Justin Whitmel Earley is a lawyer, author, and speaker from Richmond, Virginia. His books include The Common Rule, Habits of the Household, Made for People, and more. Justin is married to Lauren and has four sons: Whit, Asher, Coulter, and Shep.

    • The best relationship-building moments with your children happen in the mess, not by avoiding or controlling it.

    • As kids grow older, shift from structured rhythms to creating intentional spaces where deeper conversations can happen naturally.

    • Relationship is built in shared activity—invite your children into your projects, even when it means things will take longer or be done imperfectly.

    • A "pause prayer" before disciplining your children can transform how you respond to frustrating situations.

    • The reconciliation between siblings can be generative, creating joy that extends beyond your family to bless your entire neighborhood.

  • Bob Merritt [00:00:39] Those are the moments in life, Jeff, that I just pray and hope that dads don't forfeit by doing something stupid years before that moment. Those are moments that life is made of. Be a faithful husband. Be a moral dad. Be a dad that your daughter can look up to and count on and know that he's a man of God. So that when your daughter is standing there her bedroom. Age 18 or their flip-flops all piled up. That you can cry together and know that no one can sunbreak death. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:01:16] Welcome back to Dad Awesome, guys. This is episode 381 with Bob Merritt. This is part two, if you missed, From the Vault. Last week, 380. It's the setup, the first half of my conversation with Bob Marritt. Now, when I said From the vault, what this means is once in a while, we jump back and re-feature a conversation. It doesn't happen that often, but maybe it should happen more because there are treasures from years and years ago that many of you have never heard. And I sat down with Bob Merritt four years ago and we had a two-part conversation. I actually, he's like the only person ever that I ran into in the wild. By in the while, I was at a coffee shop in White Bear Lake, Minnesota, and I recognized Pastor Bob Merrit, and I, you know, we'd never met before. He had no idea who I was, and I said, Could I just take two minutes of your time? And I explained about the impact his ministry, his leadership had been on my life and how I was adjacent to, I had so many friends who directly have experienced his leadership and I just thanked him. And I said, hey, I lead a ministry called Dad Awesome. Would you ever be interested in sitting down for an hour? And he was so gracious. We set it up, we actually spent a couple hours together. But anyways, this is the second half of that conversation and it was recorded, like I said four years ago. It's so helpful, so practical, so timely today, as much as it was four years ago. Bob pastored for a couple decades at a church called Eagle Brook Church, handed off the leadership about five years ago, and now is doing all kinds of leadership, teaching, consulting, and coaching. And he graciously said yes four years ago and then just shot me an email this week, just so pumped that we're re-featuring it and just. I'm just so encouraged by what we're doing at Dad Awesome. So here's episode, the second half of the conversation, episode 381 with Bob Merritt. 

    Bob Merritt [00:03:17] The second thing I'd say is stay moral as a dad. If the marriage ended or whatever, you can still be a dad who is moral, honest, true, faithful. Start now. Don't shack up with another woman. Don't start sleeping around. Don't do misbehaving. I'm telling you, the reason there's delinquent kids today is because they've had delinquant parents. Not always. But a lot of times, if you've got kids off the rails, it's because their parents are living lives that are just reckless and selfish, to be honest with you. So stay faithful to your spouse, stay moral. Pursue God. Let them see you go to church. Let them hear you pray. Let them know that God is number one in your life, and that will never, ever change. You do those three things? 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:04:21] Or it's not a profound answer that you just gave. But it's so needed. It would make all the difference. So I wanna go deeper into all three, but instead I'm gonna jump to a question you asked your son when he was 10. And I think it's a fun question. And it's question that you get real honesty when kids are young. But you said, Dave, where do I need to improve? And he replied, are you serious? Let me tell you. And then he fired five glaring flaws in rapid succession. Most of them, you said, were about your hurtful words and your bursts of anger. So I mean, that question of just asking our kids, like just asking them and truly listening, talk a little bit more about that moment and how we can maybe pay more attention to the answers. 

    Bob Merritt [00:05:08] Yeah, I think I was reading a book that prompted me to be vulnerable, and again, it takes a level of strength and humility to ask your son or your daughter, hey, where do I screw up? It takes monumental strength to ask you spouse that. Only strong men will ask their spouse, where I suck? Where do I, where do I blow it? Weak men will never do this. So I'll never forget that moment. And David, where does your dad fail? Literally, he just laughed. He said, are you kidding me? That's a 10-year-old. And he just let it rip. And I said, well, time out. But that spoke to me. It said, you know what? I might not be, I may need some help. I may to sharpen. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:06:12] Some things up. So that was a little nugget from your daughter and from your son, different seasons for sure. But then there's your dog. And I have Boomer. So Boomer is, his name sounds masculine, Boomer, he's a male, all my daughters, I've got all girls, my wife, and me and Boomer but he's golden doodle so he actually walks with a little bit of a stride. He doesn't look very manly. His name though, so I have to say it, Boom. Now Blue is your dog, right? What what have you learned about? Either, you can go either way here, either about fatherhood and like, what have you learned about like, hey, this was a takeaway from my dog that I applied to the dad life. Or what have learned about your heavenly father from your dog? So this is, we're going real deep here, dog wisdom. 

    Bob Merritt [00:06:56] Thank you. Lou, he's a loyal friend. You know, in moments of real desperation, I would take him out, just myself and the dog, and he would lead me through a cattail swamp, punting pheasants together here, just close by. And he would look up at me when there was scent, or he would, if we had some success, he'd come back with the bird in his mouth and drop it at my feet, and he'd be so happy. And we'd celebrate together. You know dogs are so loyal They're happy all the time happy to see you and if we could as dads Be happier creatures Laugh more be joyful not take life so seriously all the around our family and kids. I think we'd be 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:07:55] lot better off but Eric Liddell jumped into my heart there of when I run I feel God's pleasure and just the prayer that our kids when we play when we wrestle when I throw my daughter off one of those floating lily pads in the lake that like do they feel our pleasure right it's just that's a great yeah 

    Bob Merritt [00:08:12] Yeah, to laugh. And I would ask dads, do you laugh? Do you laugh around your family? Do you laughing in the home? Is your laughter heard throughout your home? Or has it been a year since you've really laughed? If it's been a years since you really laughed in your home, something's wrong. Something's deeply wrong. Pay attention to that. Hit a dog. Yeah, that's right. Lighten the mood a little bit. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:08:41] Um, looking at Nellie and Dave, so your son-in-law and your son and what they're doing today with, you know, your six grandkids. Um, and you can, you can brag on your daughter-in law and daughter as well, just parenting wisdom, but like, what are you seeing them do today that you're like, Whoa, I could have learned something when I was a dad. Like it just, just seeing the spotting things that you're like, that is good. Like they're really investing in the right areas when it comes to. 

    Bob Merritt [00:09:03] Yeah, both of them are much more compassionate than I was. They showed compassion, they showed tenderness. Both of them have a tender heart. Nellie was the only boy in his home, and his dad bailed, and he was too. And it was very, to this day, is very hurtful to him. And his mom did a decent job of raising him. But because his dad wasn't in the picture, Nellie's very sensitive to being present or his kids. And because he knows the pain of being abandoned. And I just love that about him. So he took what was a painful thing, and still is. He's 35 years old. It's still a painful that his dad never really loved him or was there for him. He took that and made sure that that would never happen in his family. And when you talk about God uses pain, that's an important thing for Nellie, and I can see that. He's very present, he's very home. Even though he's got this demanding job as a radiologist, he's there much more than I was. David just has a tender heart. He's much more tender with his kids. He's got my wife's tenderness. So he's go the, well I won't say the best of both, both of us, he got the best of her and he's a got a little bit of me. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:10:29] Well, back to that idea of being average and just doing things with consistency that are very doable for all of us, but just choosing to do them with consistency. One of my mentors, Don Grafam, who I mentioned earlier, has watched you in your leadership for what, 15, 17, a lot of years, a lotta years, and he's been a mentor of mine for 19 years now, and he watched you choose. A posture of God, I need you versus I've got this one wrapped up. I'm going to, I'm gonna do it like I'm good as a leader, as a, as And he, he pulled this out of a conversation with you. He said, you said this Jesus in my weakness, show yourself strong. It's not about me. I need. You, it's a posture, of kneeling actually as a physical posture of saying This is not about me delivering awesome. This is about me being average and desperate need. We prayed this before we hit record about like a demonstration of your power. That's what we want in our homes is a demonstration God's power. Well, would you encourage us, challenge us to make it less about us and more about God showing himself strong? 

    Bob Merritt [00:11:31] Well, full disclosure, a lot of my dependence and that prayer that you just mentioned, I'm weak, make me strong, came out of a sense of deep fear and weakness. People don't know this maybe, but I was every week just terrified by taking God's word and standing before a congregation of hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands. On a weekly basis would terrify me. Not to the point of not being able to function, but it just brought me, it drove me right to my knees. And so Jeff, fear is a real thing that I think God used in my life just to get on my knees of submission to him. I needed him, flat out, still do. So I don't know how else to say that, but I was just driven by this absolute fear and sense of responsibility that I had to say things to a congregation that were true and helpful and relevant to their lives. And if I failed at that, man, what a failure. And I just, I couldn't allow myself to. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:12:49] You had an awareness of what was at stake. I think that that fear driver in a submitted, to our heavenly father, but the fear driver in parenting of look at what is at stake, picture the eyes again of your grandkids. Like for me, I've written a letter that actually describes what's at stake if I make these choices, this is in my neighborhood, the neighbors who I've lived near for 14 years, this is how they get pain. This is the people who I lead, my wife. My girls, my grandkids, my extended family, this is how I hurt people if I choose these. You talked about selfishness earlier, right? I think the reality, the posture of look at the stakes, like we're choosing as dads to make daily decisions with massive casualties if we choose selfishness. 

    Bob Merritt [00:13:46] And we oftentimes don't see that or make that calculation in our head in the moment of temptation. But boy, you've got to know that if I take that step, if I cross that line, even though I'm tempted and I feel like I deserve that and I'm tired and exhausted and I owe that, you got to have enough reading and background and accountability in your life in that moment to make sure you don't cross that line because you know and you've studied it and you've been taught, and you have been. You've talked to other people, you've watched, you know that if you do that, you're gonna forfeit. A lot. I mean, it could be your very life, your relationships, the things that you love the most, your marriage, your kids, even your career. If you cross certain lines of no return, it's going to affect you. And I just pray to God and I still do. God bless you. Don't ever allow me. Keep me away from crossing a line or a certain line. It's just... 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:15:00] And I guess to go the other direction, to when our kids cross a line, it's gonna happen. Our kids are gonna make a decision. They're gonna cross a lie and make a decision that we didn't raise them this way, but they're taking a step this direction where we think maybe we're perceiving they're taking a steps that's gonna cause some harm to themselves or to others. There's a story that I'd love for you to kind of dive into around your son and you choosing, even though you said earlier, multiple times you talked about your words and about quick and anger. It's, to what I know about this story, you chose a different path of addressing. Uh... Your son in a situation at a college house yet talk about that story 

    Bob Merritt [00:15:33] He was a sophomore in college at Bethel University. You know, when your son or daughter goes off to school, or they become, you know, 18, 19, they're adults. They're young adults. So parenting becomes a little different, but you never stop being a parent. I've learned that now. They're still, they are 34, 33. I'm still parenting in a different way, but advising and giving counsel when asked and so forth. They're always watching. They're also watching what dad is doing. Do I still go to church? Do I read God's word? Do I also read books to educate myself? And they're watching me. I just began hearing about this house where six guys, my son was a part of this house and it became known as a party house. I began hearing this through the grapevine. Hey, did you know your son, you know, whatever. And I thought, oh, okay, no, I didn't know that. So, on a Saturday morning, this was completely out of character. I mean, I'd never done this, you know, he's at school, leave him alone, and come to church, whatever, see him on the weekend. Saturday morning. That Saturday night, we do church. Very out of the character for me to do this, but I knew I had to. So, I walked and drove over to this house over in Arden Hills, And I just let myself. In walked through the open garage and there were whiskey bottles and beer cans and so forth spilled over from the garbage can and I knocked on the door in the garage and a roommate came to the door said I said is my son David here he said yeah he's back studying in his room I said I need to see him so he let me in and I knock on David's door seeing his dad standing in his door was, what are you doing? I just sat down next to him. I said, David, you know, just real quickly, I've heard that this is a party house, et cetera, et cetera. And I said that's the reputation that this house has and you are a part of that. He said, wait a minute, I have not been drinking, Dad. I don't drink. I said okay, I believe you. I said but this, your reputation is at stake. And I said, furthermore, you're. Friends are underage. I said, if something bad happens, you're liable. And I said for me, David, though, bottom line, it's all about influence. And i said, I never wanted to be a dad who had a drinking problem with with your mom. I didn't want to put myself at risk for you kids. I never wanted to get into a drinking habit that might lead you down a bad road. And I said, for me, it's all about influence. You have friends and you're the caddy master at the yacht club, at Whiteberry Yacht Club, and you have 50 little kids looking up to you. I said it's about influence, man. Just hope you turn this around. That was it. I said, you know, you're going to live your life the way you're gonna live it. You're an adult. And I got up and left. And I prayed for him. And he said thank you and got up left. Within a month, I heard that they had started a Bible study. They began leaning in on purity issues and drinking issues. They cleaned it up. And that was a moment, though, Jeff. I could have just said, you know what, kids are kids, college kids, they're gonna do their thing. I coulda done that, just let it ride. Instead, I stood up, and I'm not patting myself on the back, but I was a dad. And I spoke the truth, and that was a turning point in my son's life, and it coulda gone either way. And I praise God for the young man he is today, and it just, I'll tell you what, dads, Do not ignore those things. Do not just pretend or think, ah, they'll turn out. They'll turn all right. Speak up in the right way, in the the right timing. But you gotta speak up and you gotta be a dad. I hear so many parents say, you know what, I'm just gonna let my kids figure life out themselves. You know, they're just going to find their way, even with religion, whatever. And I'm like, are you kidding me? They've got, you know, 24-7 internet, social media, if you watch TV today, everything has gone south in terms of morality and relationships and everything goes. If you as a parent aren't speaking to them about about God and morality and how to live and how treat people and how be pure. Well, they're going to get a boatload of education from their peers, school, government, you name it. Everybody else is going to be teaching them the wrong things. And if you, as a parent, don't stand up and be a parent. You'll lose your kids in this world. They will be lost. Morally, spiritually, they'll struggle. I see it around my neighborhood. Next door neighbors, these are 28, 30-year-old kids. Who have messed it up. Now they're coming back, living back at home, trying to find their way. It's unbelievable. Come on. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:21:11] The concept of be a dad, like versus when our child is born, we become a dad. But then we choose daily to be the dad that they need. And this quote I think would help even go a little deeper into it. John Maxwell said, there's an enormous magic in a tiny word, do. When we tell ourselves I'll do it, we unleash tremendous power. What is the number one catalyst for change? It's action. And if you take action, it will change your life. Action, some people could have even, maybe a friend or a advisor could have said, hey, actually, because are you, like, they could almost critique you stepping into that moment because you're doing it for your reputation. Are you doing it like, but you're saying like, we have to err on the side of action and err on this side of being the dad, not default to passivity. 

    Bob Merritt [00:22:07] And we might say something wrong. Sure. I mean, as a parent growing up, Laurie and I would look at each other and think, I have no idea what to do with this kid. I have idea how to respond to my daughter who's just having a melt. What is going on? I don't know what to say. Or somebody slams the door. I've had that happen to me at home a few times. Slams the doors in anger. And what do you say or what do do? And oftentimes, we have no ideas. We have no idea, but what I've said over the years is we stayed in the battle. And I'll tell parents, look, you might not know what to do. You might say some things wrong. But do not bail. Don't walk away. Don't ignore the issue. Pay attention to the right time, right way. But stay in the Battle. Don't just pretend. There's not an issue. Don't pretend that it's gonna fix itself. Again, you might have to give it time to simmer down or whatever, but don't abdicate the responsibility of being a parent to the culture. You're the parent. God puts you in that role for a reason. And you might not know the exact thing to say or do. You know, read some parenting books, get some help. But there are gonna be moments in every parent, you're not gonna know what to do. But you got you got to be there. You got to press it 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:23:34] There is, for me, I'm seeing my four daughters, and I'm thinking about different moments of launching them. And to an extent, you, a year and a half ago, you've launched, you stepped away from a church, you retired from your role, handed off the, you've launch to another leader. In the same way, I think there's some parallels between launching our kids, even though we're still dad, I'll still get to be dad when I launch, but thinking about the moment of, for your daughter going to college, a moment of And I actually don't even know what happened here, but I would love to hear that. Just take us into that moment of what happened as you interacted with your daughter. 

    Bob Merritt [00:24:10] Yeah, she used to love flip-flops and she'd buy, she had a whole pile, boatload of flip- flops and she was known for that. I was getting ready to go to church, it was a Saturday, Saturday morning, I think, Saturday noon, I was gettin' ready and I got myself, you know, got my clothes on, whatever. I walked past her bedroom door and there she was, her flip- Flops were in a pile. She was piling them up and getting her things ready. To leave home, or to school, or college. And I remember I had this light green shirt on and I just, my heart just broke. Because for 18 years, her bedroom was right next to our bedroom. And I would hear her get ready for school in the morning. And she was going to be leaving that room. And I just, I walked in and I embraced her and I started crying and she cried. I just held her and her tears stained my green shirt before I was going to go to church. I just told her how much I loved her and that as a dad, I would always love her and be there for her no matter where she was. And I think that that's what God does for us. That even though we have these moments where we have to leave or we have to transition and go somewhere else or do something else, that our Heavenly Father will never leave us. And He'll always love us. And those are the moments in life, Jeff, that I just pray and hope that dads don't forfeit by doing something stupid years before that moment. Those are the moment that life is made of. But be a faithful husband. Be a moral dad. Be a dad that your daughter can look up to and count on and know that he is a man of God, so that when your daughter is standing there in her bedroom, age 18 or their flip-flops all piled up, that you can cry together and know that no one can separate them. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:26:53] The beauty of a recording like this, the gift of having just shared reflections. But now I'm actually gonna have you share forward to your grandkids, which you'll likely have more than these six grandkids. No, I think that's gonna be it. That's it, maybe just six. Well, but they're gonna be married someday. And I actually want you to talk to your grandchildren and their spouses. And they're just, they found out they're pregnant or maybe they just got home with their baby. And you too share. Just some hopes for them as they enter this journey of being, and specifically, the boys and those little girls, their husbands, like share with these young dads and just share your heart over them. You've done that already. They're gonna listen to the whole thing, okay? They're all gonna listen this whole thing years from now, but anything else you'd wanna say to your grandsons. 

    Bob Merritt [00:27:44] Yeah, just, you know, your parents are some of the best parents on the planet. They're not perfect. But your mom and dad love you more than you'll ever know, and they love Jesus. And they are trying to lead you to love Jesus as well. And kids, if you respect and honor your parents and if you love Jesus and trust Him with all your heart. He will bless you in ways that you will never have dreamed of. Bible says love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind and it says love others as you love yourself so just try to love God and try to show love to other people and You're gonna make mistakes and we all do I made a lot of mistakes more than you'll ever know But God will never abandon you He will love you and he will lead you all the way through life as long as you Love him first. I love you guys. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:29:01] Would you say a prayer over your grandsons, over me as a young dad, and over all the dads listening? Just say a short prayer of both blessing, but also a prayer of challenge. Yeah, we do challenges with your prayers. 

    Bob Merritt [00:29:17] So Father, thank you for the privilege of being a dad and granddad, and I thank you for my son and his two sons. I thank You for my daughter and her little boy. God, I pray a prayer over these grandsons, Lord, that they will love You, first and foremost, that they would find You to be their Lord and Savior at a very early age and trust You so that You can be the center of their life and and lead them through this life to make great decisions about everything. God, I thank you for my son, David, and my son-in-law, Nellie, give them the strength and the wisdom to raise their kids and raise their boys to love you and pursue you with all their heart, soul, and mind. God, thanks for Jeff. Thank you for his obedience to you, for this ministry to dads. Anoint him. I see the smile on his face. I see that passion. In his life, God, I just thank you for his obedience to you, to being a dad of these four little girls. Unbelievable. What a gift, what a challenge. The stakes are high, so just protect him as a dad, protect these little girls, his wife as well, as you will in my family as well Father. Thank you, we love you for the gift of family. Praise you in Jesus' name. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:30:41] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 381, this from the vault replay of an episode recorded four years ago. The conversation links, the notes, the key quotes, the key takeaways, the transcripts, and then links to Pastor Bob Merritt, his website with all of his books. It's all gonna be at dadawesome.org slash podcast, and then you can just look up. 381. All right guys, you're good to go. I want to encourage you. I've been in welcoming our community to leave me a voice message. It could be feedback, it could be encouragement, but also just tell me a little bit about yourself because I'm scheduling 30-minute Zoom calls, FaceTime calls, just a chance to connect with our listeners. And I'm prayerfully scheduling one or two of those conversations every single week. So simply check the show notes for the link to me a voice message and I love hearing from I've just, it's a highlight hearing these voice messages and then reaching out and setting up these calls. So we'd love to encourage you to leave Dad Awesome a voice message. All right, thanks for listening. I'm praying for you guys. I'm cheering for you, guys. Have a great week. 

    • "Those are the moments in life that I just pray and hope that dads don't forfeit by doing something stupid years before that moment. Those are moments that life is made of."

    • "I think fear is a real thing that God used in my life just to get on my knees of submission to him. I needed him, flat out, still do."

    • "Only strong men will ask their spouse, where do I suck? Where do I blow it? Weak men will never do this."

    • "Do you laugh? Do you laugh around your family? Do you laugh in the home? Is your laughter heard throughout your home? Or has it been a year since you've really laughed? If it's been a year since you really laughed in your home, something's wrong."

    • "We might not know what to do. We might say some things wrong. But do not bail. Don't walk away. Don't ignore the issue. Pay attention to the right time, right way. But stay in the battle."

 

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