378 | Shepherding Your Family Through Grief, Launching Disciples, and Finding Light in the Darkness (Brian Doyle)

Experiencing God's LoveBrotherhood & Mentorship
Written By Jeff Zaugg

Episode Description

In this episode, Brian Doyle shares what it was like to parent through the unimaginable. After losing his wife to cancer at age 54, Brian had to navigate his own grief while guiding his teenage and young adult kids through theirs. His story will challenge you to keep your eyes on the future, disciple your kids with purpose, and take initiative to invest in the dads around you.

  • Brian Doyle is the Founder and President of Iron Sharpens Iron and serves as the National Director of the ISI Ministry Network. The mission of Iron Sharpens Iron is to equip churches to train men for spiritual leadership in the home, church and community. 

    • Instead of avoiding grief, learn to walk through it in a healthy way so your sorrow can eventually lead to joy.

    • If you want your kids to follow Christ, you have to show them what that looks like in your everyday life.

    • You’re not raising kids; you’re launching disciples.

    • No one else can do what God designed you as a man to do.

    • The time you invest in younger dads today can equip them for the challenges they’ll face decades from now.

  • Jeff Zaugg [00:01:05] This is episode 378 of Dad Awesome. And guys, I wanna wish you a happy Easter. This is releasing just the day before Good Fridays. We're headed into Easter weekend celebrating the resurrection of Jesus and just the love of God. And I feel like this is just a perfect time to remind us, all of us as dads, John 3.16, for God so loved the world that he sent. His one and only son, Jesus, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, shall not die, but will have everlasting life. Guys, God so loved. You. He so loved your kids that he gave, that he he gave everything. He gave the unimaginable. He sacrificed in ways we can never imagine. So we celebrate Easter, but we also celebrate a moment to bring Easter to life for our family. So I just want to just encourage you guys to share about, to tell about, to explain how the love of God has changed your life. Tell your kids, tell your kids. This is not an encouragement to be public on social media about your love for the Lord. It's a reminder at the dinner table while flipping pancakes for breakfast, while cuddling with your kids before bed or through sending a text message if you have older kids to remind your kids how much God loves them and that, man, what a gift they are to your family. But you want to just sure to use your words to tell your kids how much God loves them. Today's conversation with Brian Doyle, the founder and president of Iron Sharpens Iron, is a conversation that talks about a dad walking through the unimaginable. Children, junior high, high school, college, when his wife went through a journey of going home to heaven. The way he unpacks grief, and this story, I think will inspire us to live with love, more love in the chapter that we're at today with our kids. It's gonna inspire us with the love of God and how it brought him strength and how we can bring us strength in the present and in future chapters of trials, future chapters. The unimaginable, because we as dads need to be ready. We need to take action today to be ready for what might be coming in the future. And the future is not a guarantee of all up and to the right. Every good story has moments of pain. We live in a broken world. And I just want to remind you guys, today's story, the strength we can learn from Brian Doyle, can bring amazing transformational impact in the today, in the present, but building type impact into the future, so. Yeah, excited about this conversation. It's a little shorter conversation. On Easter week to give you guys more time back with your families. So praying for you as you listen, let's lean in with our full hearts and I'm praying that we all as dads would take courageous, loving action to bring the story of Jesus to life to our kids. So, praying for you guys. We're going to jump right in. And this has been a 25 plus year history of serving men, serving dads that Brian has led through Iron Sharpens Iron. And so we kind of jump right into talking about the theme of initiative, but I just want to honor Brian for all of the years. I mean, it's countless. The impact is hundreds of thousands, but it's, countless men have been impacted through this ministry, the ripple effects. So grateful for him, grateful for his story, his testimony today that he's going to share. So this is episode 378 with Brian Doyle. I love the approach of choose your own adventure, because every man is at such a different place. And I just want to celebrate initiative. You saw a need, you rallied with some friends, and you brought the need into fruition with a couple of events the first year. It was fun to even read on your website through the timeline of just like how this thing snowballed. But it truly... Taking initiative, so somebody listening, taking initiative could be saying, I'll start a campfire and invite some guys over. I could do this men's ministry. You could look so many different ways, but it takes someone who says, I'll go first. I'll take initiative. You have created though, and now guys can go to your website, look at all the events. Taking initiative of just inviting some other guys to one of these iron sharpens irons one day events could be the next step. Take initiative of hosting one. Learn about the resources, host one so there's so many like possible but if a guy doesn't take the initiative which am I hypothesis here is that men don't take initiative because they feel like who am I to take initiative? Who am I, to lead, to invite? I have all this stuff going on. How would you combat that? 

    Brian Doyle [00:05:51] Well, I would say we do live in a professional culture. We hire people to do things who are trained, who have expertise, who are educated. So there's some sense that that makes sense. But now when it comes to being a dad, you're not a professional dad, you're a dad. We can't give away, no one can do, Jeff, what God designed a man to do. The Church which is completely well-intentioned. The staff of the church, the volunteers in the youth ministry and children's ministry, who are all some of the most wonderful people, will probably ever meet. Nobody can do what God intended a man to do. So I intuitively knew that, and so I just kind of, I mean, I was a young dad like you. I kind of looked to the left, look to the rain realized There's nothing for dads. There really is nothing for men, for husbands. So I've got to do something. So I just started in, like you said, I started in the mid-90s and early 90s with my own local church, which is the place you should start. I volunteered, I raised my hand. And the first fathering thing that I ever did, because I was a, I don't even think we had our first baby yet. We were due. We had a. Barbara and I had about seven years of infertility, so we were anticipating for a long time. And then the prayers of the saints and of some drugs and the first baby came in 1995. I remember hosting or organizing something. I didn't go out and get a speaker. I didn' go on the web because I don't think there was a web. I asked four guys in my church who had all launched their children, I mean, out of high school, so they had all launch children. And I said, would you be willing to share with the younger guys about what worked for you as a dad? And of course, they were hesitant because they're not speakers. And so I said I'm just going to set up a couple tables. Uh, there's four of you, two guys behind this table, two guys behind that table, each year for 10 minutes. And then maybe a little Q and a, they go, all right. And that's where it started. And it was complete rockstar success. Yeah. I mean, I mean no budget. And why would you need a budget? I mean I think we had some snacks, not much. Uh, we just pulled the guys and guys came, you know what? These guys want to, they want. The most important heart area of their life, especially when you give them a personal invite, especially when it's in their own local church. They don't have to go, you know, an hour and a half to that and give a poll Saturday. This is like an hour-and-a-half on a Thursday night. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:09:00] So the setting up tables so they don't have to stand on the stage with a microphone, you know, There was no microphone. I love it. And then also knowing I'm one of four, like this is all, we can borrow this concept. Any of us could find tap four grandpas or dads who have launched their kids. If I asked you that question just broadly, what would you want to share with some younger dads specifically around the topic of infertility or waiting. And there's a delay, we thought it was gonna look like this. What are some of the things you would share, top of mind? 

    Brian Doyle [00:09:31] Well, I would say shepherd your wife through this. You're a guy, you don't know how hard it is for the average Christ-following woman. All women are wired this way because God designed all women like that. But if you're bathing yourself in the Word of God and you're around a Christian community. Uh, with, you know, reproducing families, you, you want to be part of that. You want that for yourself. You, you wanna experience motherhood. So you really, number one, have to shepherd your wife. That was my first job. Second job is you just have to walk by faith and not just by sight. And spend time in God's Word. One of the things I remember having a devotional time somewhere along the lines, let's say halfway through the infertility, and I'm reading Malachi, which, you know, you think of Malachi. What's that got to say? Well, in Malachi 2, you know Malachi's quoting God about how he hates divorce and, you and how he wants oneness in marriage. And then he says this, and why one? I think this is verse 15, because I desire, I, God, desire godly offspring. I remember reading that go, all right, well, you want it, let's go. And so I was a little more aggressive in my prayers, a little bit more intentional, brought my wife in. So we were in one accord, and I became completely convinced. We actually looked at two adoption agencies. We just became more intentional because we knew what God wanted was offspring, not just offspring, but godly offspring. Well, Barbara and I were all in for that, for discipling our own kids. We were ready to go. All we needed was the offspring. So, that was part of it, too, is we were in God's Word, and God spoke to us. Through His Word. Stay the course. Baby's coming. You know, like Abraham, you know, many nations. Yeah, but where's it going to start? It'll happen. Just keep walking by faith. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:12:02] And it was seven years later. What's the chapter of dad life today? So give us a framework of how old your five kids are now. 

    Brian Doyle [00:12:09] Yeah, so that's them. If you're on video, if you're just listening, my kids are all in their 20s. So I call that the launch stage. I've launched them. You know, if you have little kids, you're not launching them, you are discipling them. But you're discipling with the launch in mind. And this is usually what I encourage young dads. You know, it's not just about today and getting them to obey and all that kind of stuff. You're looking ahead at them being world-changing, Christ-following disciples who make disciples, and so you have so. Now I'm in the stage where pretty much there's nobody here. There's nobody living here. Susie is my youngest. She's 21. She is here sometimes. Tim is 23. He's getting married next month. Matt's 25. He's married. And in the military. Mike is 27. He's married, living in Texas and had his first baby last month. Just sent me some more photos this morning. Yes. And then Jessica is 29. She lives in Kentucky and she's married and has two little girls. So they are launched. I'm still launching Suzy. So I still, I'm excited to be part of that life. I think. Tim getting married next month is kind of, you know, he's got his own apartment now. You know, the wedding's in what? Three weeks. So it's a fun season of life for us, really. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:13:46] I want to go back in time to a previous season and, you know, the guys listening to Dad Awesome know my journey of five and a half years ago. The word launch can be launching kids, but we launched and saw my dad launch from which we called it paradise to paradise where he went home to heaven after a couple of or fight with cancer. I know you had a season, no seasons alike, but a season of saying goodbye to your wife, Barbara. And I'm curious what age, well, how long was the journey, the health journey and what age were your kids? 

    Brian Doyle [00:14:18] Yeah, and it was completely out of nowhere. I mean, it was, you know, cancer is tough for everybody. Some cancers are, they're all tough. This particular cancer was hidden, so it was down in her bile, duct, and liver, so he didn't know anything about it until It started to manifest a little bit. So that was July of 2016. And then, 19 months later, Barb passed away. That would have been March of 2018. When Barb passed, away the kids were 14, 16, 18, 20, and 21. It was my great privilege to Shepard. First of all, to shepherd my wife through this adventure of cancer, and help her take the next step, which she did remarkably well, and is a model to me and to anyone who knew her of fighting the fight, keeping the faith, finishing the race. 2Nd Timothy 4.7. It's hard for me, you know, it's hard with my kids. I mentioned that we had a grandson last month. It's a hard, I don't know what the word is, it's emotional, if I can say that. It's emotional to hold the baby, and I kind of wish my wife was here so she could hold the the baby. But when I do hold the Baby, I realize that 25% of that baby. Is Barbara Doyle. It'll be hard next month when Tim gets married. We just went over the seating chart I think this weekend and Tim and his sweet fiance Mia they've got a chair right there front row on the aisle that's for Barb. It's Yeah, because she can't be there. So it's challenging. I would go back to what I share with men is when I came to Christ at 19, I had men who invested in me, who invested time in me. That's what they did. They helped me to study the Bible, to pray. To be a man of faith, to live under the Lordship of Christ, to help make disciples and be a disciple and make disciples, to submit, to, you know, live the Christian life as an adventure and be in with all, both feet. And I did that and I helped other men do it. And of course you do it, it's your 20s, your 30s, your 40s, and then at some point, you're married, you got kids, and then your wife gets cancer and she passes away. But you go back to that time of some older men investing in me as a very young man in college and post-college who equipped me for what would happen 40 years later. So these guys, Mike and Lee and Fred who were investing me, give or take when I was 20 years old, fast forward to 60 when bar passes away because that's how old I was, I know knew how to walk with God in a difficult time. And I knew how to shepherd my children and my extended family because everybody's looking at me like this. What now? What do you do when the most important person in your life is gone? We were a homeschool, home education family, and obviously. Barbara's the center of that, and now she wasn't there. So that was quite challenging. And although the kids had a lot in common, there's still five different kids, five different personalities, temperaments, five different walks of God, five different stuff going on. So you can't just kind of run them through a manufacturing plant. You got to shepherd them together and individually. What a wonderful challenge it was for me. And honestly, the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life. You know, I mentioned I think earlier, a couple minutes ago, we have like over 600,000 men that come to these conferences, blah, blah blah. The most rewarding things I ever have done in life is shepherd my children during this very difficult time and helping them now five years late. No, seven years later, walk with God in victory and joy. We talked about it, I think it was last night, Susie and Tim were over for dinner. We just talked about the joy that we have. We talked remembering mom with joy, not with sorrow, with joy. I needed to learn how to grieve. One of the things i've seen among men like myself. Many men like myself is that we push back on grief. I probably had that tendency also, Jeff, because I'm a guy, I'm an American male. You know, I got it, I'll do it, yeah. But I had five kids, so bar passes away. If I had no kids, or if the kids were all out of the house, which they weren't. Then I may have said, I'm fine. But because they were young, 14, 16, 18, 20, and they're going to school locally and college at UCF, Florida, they were all right there. I mean, in the kitchen, you know, I had to figure out how to help them. So I jumped into what our church provided, which was grief share. And so I learned something I did not know. I did know about grief. I mean, I know what everybody else knows, which is basically nothing, but I learned how to grief. I learned to step into grief, healthy grief, the kind of grief that everybody experiences and some people do it well and some who don't. So I learned for myself how to grieve and then I invite my kids into the journey of learning how to Grieve, how to step into that grief. How your sorrow can turn to joy, but not immediately. You needed to go through the sad times. No one really wants to, but you need to. That's the way you heal. And so it was about healing. So over the course of the next few years, not all at once, the girls, pretty quickly, they stepped into it and, you know, the boys were like, I'm good, took the boys. Six months to a year before they said, uh, me too. So, cause they're American males also. And so you needed, they needed to come to the place where they wanted help on how to learn, how to grieve because it wasn't getting any better. So again, uh great joy, very rewarding, I still miss her like crazy, but what I do miss is... That, you know, especially as a homeschool mom, she gave her life and everything in her life to these five children. And now I get to see them succeed and do remarkably well and walk with God. And I don't know how it all works, but I'd love to just sit and talk to my wife about it and just affirm the daylights out of her. That's just part of me grieving as well. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:22:42] Ryan, thank you for the sliver that you just shared with me. And I do want to go back to 30, 40 years before, you know, you're six years old and you're grieving. You said a couple older men invested in you. What else to help us dads prepare? Things will be thrown at all of us. It's going to look different for different, but like grief is coming at us in a different shapes and different sizes. How do how else would you say? Hey, focus here, grow here, invest here to be ready for, uh, so that you can shepherd versus, uh crumble when, when something hard comes. 

    Brian Doyle [00:23:21] Well, again, back to what we talked about earlier in our conversation is that even if your kids are little, 1, 3, 5, 7, 14, whatever their age is, you're looking ahead. You always got an eye on the future. You got an I on the season of life I'm in, which is launching children, being a grandfather. You're doing things in such a way, 1 Corinthians 11, 1 where you can say to your kids, FOLLOW ME! As I follow Christ. You want your kids ultimately to follow Christ, that's what's happening now because my kids aren't living with me. But when they're living with you, you give them a visual of what it is to follow Jesus, to submit to the Lordship of Christ, to live a life fully engaged with Jesus. You know, there's a saying, you probably have heard this, to teach. What you know and you want to teach. Deuteronomy 6, you want to teach, share God's Word, so you teach what you know, what you to be true, you share life principles, but you reproduce who you are. You teach what you know, you reproduce who you. Your kids are likely not going to follow Christ and submit to Him and be a disciple makes disciple if that's not So where do you start as a dad with the hope that your children will walk with God for a lifetime? Well, you need to be that kind of man. That's what you need. You need to that kind man. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:25:03] Just to double-click on this one level deeper, Hebrews 13.7, there's an image of your whiteboard that I've had the joy of reading, and you've got the, this is so precious. What, WWMD, what would mom do? Do I have that right? Yes, so I'll read the passage, and then, I mean, it's just beautiful. Hebrews 13, 7, remember your leaders, and then you have in parentheses mom. Who spoke the word of God to you, consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. Remember, consider, imitate. Would you just kind of elaborate a little bit on why that whiteboard, why that passage? 

    Brian Doyle [00:25:51] Well, I've been speaking as a husband, and we're all going to go through this. I remember my mom when my dad died. Her greatest concern was, would we remember dad? And I'm like, well, of course we're gonna remember dad. It's just what you do think when you're a spouse. So here's Barb, Barb passed away at 54. And I realized my kids were gonna live much of their life, most of their lives without their mom. But would they remember their mom? I was concerned about that. Not overly concerned. It was probably not practical to be that concerned, not logical, but I was still concerned. So I wanted my kids to understand that the model of their mom, that's who you want to follow. So this is a whole idea of what would mom do. So you process life through a person who loved Jesus and loved you. That's mom. She loved the Lord, and she loved you. So it's okay to think through, consider, as the scripture would say, consider think about. And that's a pretty good grid. I mean, for my kids, that was a pretty good grid for them to run their life decisions through, who they're gonna marry, what they're going to do with their life, what are they gonna do tonight on the college campus when people are doing certain things. So it is a... You know, as a parent, as father and mother, we want to give our kids the model that they can consider following, a compelling model, a winsome model. So, my wife did that very good, she's a winsom person. There were very little rules. If there were rules, they were probably my rules. She just won them over with her love. And so they were, I mean, they were all in for her because they knew that. Or mom loved them unconditionally. So when someone does that, moms and dads, you're winning the hearts of your kids. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:28:13] And here we are, seven years later, I'm on the other end of a podcast crying, hearing about, and I'm looking at pictures of your wife, and these words in the lower right are, to me, The gravity of these words of how you describe her and what you can imitate, I think about what would be the words written on my whiteboard. So it kind of catapults into legacy thinking, but these are what's written there. In the word daily, always positive, God-centered, servant spirit, others-centered. Cheerful, smile, supportive, comforting, prayerful, persevering, determined. And then the photo cuts off. I don't know what the last one was. Yeah. So thank you for sharing about Barb. Thank you for letting me be another ripple of her life as you reflect on. And you used a phrase light in the darkness. And I actually found in my research for this conversation that that was the name and theme of the first two gatherings. It was light in darkness. That means a lot to my family, that phrase. My six year old wrote a song a few years ago when she was like four about being light in the darkness and I'd love to just, wherever the Holy Spirit guides you to land a challenge to all of us dads around that theme. I'd love to just hear whatever comes to your heart. 

    Brian Doyle [00:29:37] Well, I mean, the point of fatherhood is not to raise kids, it's to disciple your kids. Now, you're discipling them so they can be light in the darkness. We live in an increasingly secular age. There was a time, you know, in the 60s when I was growing up. Where my mom and dad, who were not believers. We went to church, but we weren't following Jesus. They could just put me in the river, not literally, but the river of culture. And, you know, I went down the river and I did school, public school, and Boy Scouts, and band, and sports, and church. And that was the river. And I just went down river and came out just fine and dandy. It's a different world now. That was the 60s. This is 2025. Dads, the dads that are joining us today, you have to be much more intentional now. If you are gonna make a disciple who makes disciples with your children, you can't just put them in the river. I know you kind of want to. Because you got a lot going on. You got your own job and stuff going on, and you just want to kind of put them in the river. It worked for me, it should work for them. It's not working anymore. It's now working anymore, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm gonna speak the truth and just tell you, you're gonna be way more intentional. Now what that looks like for you, you have to figure it out. The key word though, is you have be intentional. If you're going to disciple your children in a lost culture that's essentially dark, light in the darkness, you're gonna have to do it like God's Word gives us instruction to do. Back to Deuteronomy 6, you are gonna have take God's word and talk about it when you sit at home, when you walk along the road in your minivan, when your rise up, when you lie down and every time in between. The culture is no longer neutral. It's hostile to what we're about. The church is not up to the job. The church desperately wants to do the job for us. But the church can't do our job. Because remember, no one can do what God called a man to do. And as a man, as a dad, God's called me to disciple my children, to be intentional, to do it on really a daily basis. That's why they live with me. You know, the disciples live with Jesus. They just weren't in as group. They live with them. And so, you live with your children, you want to disciple them. And so if your children are gonna be light in the darkness or looking ahead again, thinking, launching, think of them like my kids now in their 20s and beyond, then you're gonna have to prepare them now by being very intentional, not just putting them in the river. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:32:50] Very grateful for this conversation. Would you say a short prayer over all the stats? 

    Brian Doyle [00:32:54] I'd love to. Thank you, Lord. What a joy it is, what a privilege, what an honor it is for us to be dads. What a calling we have on our lives. Lord, I think of me now as kind of an elder statesman. I look back and I recognize the blessing it is to have men who invest in me, help me to continue to do that. And I pray for the guys who are listening today that they would get everything they can, not just for themselves, because I'm sure they're feeling fine, but so that they could be representatives of you, ambassadors for Jesus, that they can stand up when they go through the trials that if they're not here now, they're around the corner. And they'd be able to shepherd that great privilege of shepherding their children through challenges. And through all that you have in store for them, all that's ahead. I do pray for Jeff and myself and every man that's listening today, that we would be intentional. We would not give this away to professionals, but we'd own it, take it, run hard with it. We'd lock arms with our sweet wives and we'd do the job that you've called us to do. We would make disciples right here in our home. So we need your help, we ask for your grace, in Jesus' name, Amen. 

    Jeff Zaugg [00:34:26] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 378 with Brian Doyle. All the show notes, the... Key takeaways, the quotes, the transcripts, the links to Iron Sharpen's Iron, the ministry that Brian Doyle founded back over 25 years ago. It's all gonna be listed at dadawesome.org slash podcast. And then just look for episode 378. Guys, happy Easter, happy easter weekend, just celebrating with your families the death and resurrection of Jesus. And wanna remind you to send me a voicemail. I love receiving voicemails from our DadAwesome community. It's linked right in the show notes on every single application that plays podcasts and it's also listed on our website. Send a voice message up to 90 seconds long. I just love hearing feedback, love hearing about you, your family, ways I can pray for you, but also let me know if you'd be open to scheduling a 30-minute one-on-one phone call. I've been scheduling these calls and just loving connecting one-to-one. I schedule one or two of these calls per week, so I can't say yes to every single one, but man, it's a gift when you reach out and leave me a voice message. So just look in the show notes for that. And again, guys, happy Easter. Thank you for listening. Thank you being dad awesome. I'm praying for you guys. Have a great week. 

    • "No one can do what God designed a man to do. The Church which is completely well-intentioned...Nobody can do what God intended a man to do."

    • "It was my great privilege to shepherd, first of all to shepherd my wife through this adventure of cancer and help her take the next step which she did remarkably well and was a model to me and to anyone who knew her of fighting the fight, keeping the faith, finishing the race."

    • "The most rewarding things I ever have done in life is shepherd my children during this very difficult time and helping them now seven years later, walk with God in victory and joy."

    • "You teach what you know, you reproduce who you are...Your kids are likely not going to follow Christ and submit to Him and be a disciple makes disciple if that's not who you are. So where do you start as a dad with the hope that your children will walk with God for a lifetime? Well, you need to be that kind of man."

    • “The point of fatherhood is not to raise kids, it's to disciple your kids...If you are gonna make a disciple who makes disciples with your children, you can't just put them in the river...you're gonna have to be way more intentional."

 

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