458 | FROM THE VAULT: Motorboat Dads vs. Sailboat Dads, Your Family Is Getting Your Leftovers, and the Helium Yoke (Matt Fogle)

Rhythms & HabitsRaising Jesus FollowersExperiencing God's Love
Written By Jeff Zaugg

Episode Description

Most dads are living with a motorboat mentality, gripping the throttle and telling God how fast and in what direction the family should go. In this conversation from the vault, recorded on a hike in Arizona, Matt Fogle invites you to hoist your sails instead and learn the unforced rhythms of grace that Jesus offers to tired and burned out fathers. You will hear how a Quaker practice called a clearness committee helped his family discern a cross country move, why lazy dad games and unhurried evenings shape your kids more than ambitious Bible plans, and why you cannot pour living water into your kids while you are parched.

  • Matt Fogle is a pastor, spiritual director, and companion to leaders navigating the demands of life and ministry. He grew up as a wild middle child in rural Illinois. He and his wife, Jen, have four kids. With over two decades of experience and three master's degrees, in Organizational Leadership, Spiritual Formation, and Missional Theology, Matt serves with ministries including Harbor Ministries and is passionate about helping leaders create space to slow down, listen deeply, and notice God's presence in the ordinary and often overlooked moments of leadership.

    • Jesus describes his own heart as gentle and humble, and dads are invited to carry that same posture toward their kids. It does not have to go my way, and God, not me, is the primary agent of my child's spiritual formation.

    • You can live with a motorboat mentality, controlling the speed and direction of your family, or you can hoist your sails every day and let the Spirit of God set the pace. Sailing is slower, but it keeps you awake to what God is doing.

    • Big decisions are best discerned slowly: a monthly day alone with God, months of prayer with your spouse, and a handful of friends with no stake in the outcome asking hard questions until it seems good to us and to the Holy Spirit.

    • The smallest things take up the most room in a child's heart. Phone free dinners, lazy dad games, laying out clothes the night before, and acting out Bible stories will shape your kids more than a heavy program you cannot sustain.

    • If you want your kids to overflow with life, you have to be connected to living water yourself. That means saying no to good things like late night Netflix and extra shifts so God's bigger yes has room in your life.

  • Transcript lightly edited for readability. Timestamps are approximate.

    Cold Open

    Dads (montage): Being a great father takes a massive being. Instead of an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. God gave me this assignment, which means I must get on my knees and fight for my kids. Be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. Powerful encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm going to give it my all.

    Matt Fogle: If you want your kids to overflow with life, you've got to be connected to living water. And you are parched. It really is nobody else's responsibility but yours to say no to a lot of good things. To say no to late night Netflix, to say no to video games and busyness, and even overnight shifts that you don't need to take. If you were to say no to those things, God has such a bigger yes. But it's going to take intentionality, and it's going to take you guarding your heart above all else.

    Introduction (0:39)

    Jeff Zaugg: Welcome back to DadAwesome. Today is Episode 458, from the vault. Once in a while we resurface a conversation from the past nearly nine years. We're about to hit nine years as a ministry in January, so we have this vault of fatherhood wisdom. So often I'm having a conversation with someone and I'm referencing back, trying to remember who shared this. So I prayerfully love to resurface conversations from the vault.

    Today's conversation was recorded four and a half years ago with Matt Fogle. Matt works with Harbor Ministries. It'll be linked in the show notes. It's an incredible ministry that I've had firsthand experience with through two of their trips and one of their cohorts, and I love the ministry.

    My conversation with Matt was recorded while hiking in Arizona. We were on a hike together, and my audio software has gotten better in the last four and a half years, so you can't even hear the crunch of the gravel and rock under our feet. It's all stripped out. The audio is a little bit AI edited, which is okay to some degree as long as it's not causing distraction. It's a phenomenal conversation, heart level, about the hearts of fathers turning toward heaven and toward home, which is our mission. I love that I get to resurface this conversation.

    I want to remind you guys that twice a week we gather as a DadAwesome community and pray for 20 minutes. Early Monday morning, the focus is toward heaven, the hearts of fathers turning toward heaven as we enter the work week. It's a 20 minute prayer call on Zoom. Then Fridays at lunchtime, we gather for 20 minutes and the focus is hearts toward home, a turning of our hearts toward pursuing the hearts of our kids. If you're interested in joining, you're not committing to anything. You're just saying, "I want to be in the loop." Text the number 651-370-8618 and text the word PRAY or PRAYER. Either way works, and you'll be added to our update list. The number again is 651-370-8618. I feel like a radio announcer. Sorry guys, just having some fun. Glad you're listening. This is Matt Fogle, from the vault.

    The Invitation of Matthew 11 (3:46)

    Matt Fogle: In Matthew 11, verse 27, Jesus is interacting with the Father. He's praying, thanking God that God has revealed His plans to Jesus. Then He rolls right into this invitation to His people. He says, "Are you tired? Are you burned out on religion? Come to me and you can recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me, work with me, learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy on you, and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."

    When I heard that, I started crying immediately, because Tim was speaking something over me that I knew I wasn't doing. I was a youth pastor at the time, and I was burned out on religion. I was worn out. I realized that my family, specifically my wife and my new baby girl at the time, Eden, was getting all my leftovers.

    I remember getting home from Estes Park. We were living in Dallas at the time. I remember waking my wife up in bed, kneeling by the bed and crying, telling her, "Babe, I'm so sorry. I've been working 80 hour work weeks, and you and Eden have been getting my leftovers, and that's on me. I need to start saying no to some really good things to say yes to this family, to my own spiritual formation journey, and to growing in love of God first and foremost." Honestly, being in ministry, I was feeling like I was falling out of love with God. So that's when it started.

    Ever since then, I've been in a radical pursuit of trying to figure out not only how I learn these unforced rhythms, but how I demonstrate them in a way that makes others feel like, "Oh, I could enter into that rhythm of life too."

    Jeff Zaugg: The invitation. Because it is an invitation.

    Matt Fogle: It is.

    Jeff Zaugg: I've even changed my pace of walking hearing you talk about that story. Isn't it funny how we can say, "Let's get out for a walk and talk for this podcast, Matt," and it's just charge, charge, charge. You've got to think about the next question. But it's the light and free. Jump me back into that scripture for a second. How does He describe this unforced rhythm?

    The Helium Yoke (6:26)

    Matt Fogle: He says, "Learn to live freely and lightly." Or as most translations say, "Take my yoke upon you, for I am gentle and humble in heart." That's where Eugene Peterson, when he translates The Message, uses that word: unforced. Unforced rhythms.

    I just read a book that described that passage in a way that was like, imagine you're partnered with somebody, like two oxen working a field. You come into the yoke, that piece of farm machinery where you tie two oxen together so they can work better together. Imagine that you put the yoke on next to Jesus, and you start working and walking with Him. And the author said, imagine that yoke has helium in it. It automatically lifts you up. None of your own strength. You're in complete surrender to His way, to His pace.

    Jeff Zaugg: Wow. That visual is powerful. Lightly and freely. We pray Hebrews 12:1 and 2, that we could cast off the sin that entangles. Many of us, all of us, have baggage or things from our past that could be passed on to our kids, that could cause pain and hurt. Talking about an unforced rhythm where we live freely and lightly, that's what we want for our kids: not to force things and pick a direction, but to ask, "God, what do You have for them?" We as dads want to use that gentleness that verse is all about. But if we don't cast off the things that entangle us, we're living in bondage. I do think rhythm and freedom go together. You don't find freedom without rhythms.

    Gentle and Humble (8:30)

    Matt Fogle: I don't think you do either. Isn't it interesting that I think that's the only time in all of scripture where it actually gives descriptors of God's heart? What's God's heart? Gentle and lowly. Humble. To be a parent like that, to enter into relationship with your kid at whatever stage, even if you have grown kids, to constantly be in a posture of gentleness toward them. "It doesn't have to go my way." Or humility: "Man, I've made a lot of mistakes. Even though I'm twenty, thirty, forty years older than my kids, maybe God is the primary agent of my kids' spiritual formation, not me. So it's my job to ask good questions and listen and be patient along the journey, whatever that journey may be with my kids."

    Jeff Zaugg: Wow. That's what I want. That's God's heart, and it's a gift to us to follow that lead and carry that rhythm and those characteristics to our kids.

    Speedboat vs. Sailboat (9:45)

    Jeff Zaugg: On Episode 200, I gave a general reference to something a mentor of mine shared with me. That was you. I didn't mention, Matt, that it was you who shared it, because I wasn't sure if it was your framework or broader from the ministry, since you were sharing it to the team of us on Coronado Island. But I shared about speedboat versus sailboat. It was a principle you shared, and I think it'd be so helpful, even for the guys who listened to me ramble about it on Episode 200. As we think toward the next year, because this episode will drop around the start of 2022, there are two approaches: we can charge forward, or we can be led forward. Will you talk about those two?

    Matt Fogle: I grew up sailing with my grandpa, and I also grew up power boating with my dad and his buddies on the same lake, Lake Springfield in Illinois. What a different experience it is to jump in a motorboat and be in complete control. You're determining the speed and the direction, you just give it more gas, and you're totally in the driver's seat. Versus being with my grandpa, where it takes so much longer to set up the sailboat, lay out the sails, and make sure everything is good to go and all the ropes are working.

    Jeff Zaugg: And more skills as well. It takes longer and more skill.

    Matt Fogle: Yep. It's more about noticing. Where's the wind blowing? How do I harness this? What direction do I point? There's still a cooperation piece. You're still a part of it. It's not like you hoist up the sails and sit back. You're actually more engaged, and you have to be more alive and more awake to what's going on in your environment.

    I love that illustration when it comes to life in rhythm with Jesus. Are we developing a motorboat mentality by the way we're living? Are we in control? Are we telling God what direction we want to go and how fast we want to go? Specifically with our marriages and our kids, are we the ones telling God, "I want you to do this in my kid's life. I want him to look like this, or her to look like that"? Or are we hoisting up our sails every day and saying, "God, however You want to blow into my sails, however You want to blow into their sails, help me to be a good, nonanxious, cooperative friend"?

    That's the other thing about sailing. I remember my grandpa delighting in four miles an hour. And as a small kid on that journey with him, his delight was contagious. What could that look like as a parent?

    Acting Out Bible Stories (12:37)

    Matt Fogle: A rhythm we started when our kids were a little older, around two, three, four years old, is acting out Bible stories at night. We'd have dinner together, and then we'd wrestle around. I think wrestling is really important with boys.

    Jeff Zaugg: And girls.

    Matt Fogle: Yeah, my daughter especially likes wrestling. Then we move seamlessly into a time of storytelling, and we embody the story. A couple weeks ago, we were dancing around the room. There were four of us, me and my three sons, and my daughter was walking around us like the walls of Jericho.

    Jeff Zaugg: Perfect. The seven trips around the walls.

    Matt Fogle: She would yell as if she were a trumpet, and we would fall down, and we'd all laugh. Then we'd take turns. My little guy, Ace, four years old, would go around and just be delighted to be a part of it and embody that story. So in small ways and big ways, we can hoist up our sails daily and trust that the wind of God, the Spirit of God, is going to blow into our sails and move us in the direction and at the pace that He is setting, which is so un-American.

    Jeff Zaugg: Because we're a hustle culture. We want to rely on ourselves. Let's build this, build that, stack on top of each other, go to the next thing.

    Matt Fogle: It's countercultural, and I don't like how slow it is most of the time. I want it to go faster. I want to be more productive. I want to see more fruit, more waves. That's more exciting.

    The Clearness Committee (14:10)

    Jeff Zaugg: At a more macro level, paying attention to the wind takes a little more strategy. On larger sailboats, it's not like anyone can randomly decide where the wind is coming from. There's a crow's nest. There's a different way. I know you and your wife paid attention to your community of friends and mentors, voices of wisdom, and you didn't just trust yourselves when deciding to move your family three or four years ago. You learned a practice from the Quakers. Would you talk about that decision framework and how you entered into prayer?

    Matt Fogle: Was it 2018? One of my rhythms is that once a month I take a whole day of space. It could be noon to three, or nine to five, or sometimes a full day or two days, but it's where I get alone. I put my phone on airplane mode, get out my journal and the Bible, and do a lot of walks and a lot of napping. Because it turns out, usually God's like, "You're really tired."

    Jeff Zaugg: That sounds like the sailboat strategy.

    Matt Fogle: I started doing that in college, and it's been transformative over the years. Harbor Ministries reinforces that for sure, and we do it with the community. When I took that time in 2018, I kept hearing God speak Genesis 12 over me and my wife. God says to Abraham, "Leave your native country and go to a land I will show you." It started bothering me more and more. I brought it up to Jen, and she said, "Well, we just bought a house here in central Illinois." Eventually she came to a place of, "Okay, bring it up with the executive team at the church." We prayed about it for four months, and they tearfully said, "Yeah, we think you should go. This seems good to us and to the Holy Spirit." So in June of 2018, we were done with youth ministry. It was a twelve year run. It was incredible. I loved it, and I really miss high school ministry in a lot of ways.

    Then we entered the discernment process of, okay, what's next? The Quakers came up with a way of discernment called a clearness committee. Picture a room that's really cluttered, and you're trying to clear the room so you can see the path.

    Jeff Zaugg: Picture my RV. This is every evening.

    Matt Fogle: Every evening. Clear the RV away, make a walking pad. So we gathered a few friends. If you Google "Parker Palmer Clearness Committee," he has a great video on what it is and how to do it.

    Jeff Zaugg: I'll link it, because I watched it.

    Matt Fogle: One of the keys is that it was a handful of friends who didn't have any emotional attachment to our decision. That's key. Find people who are just working for your good and for discernment.

    Jeff Zaugg: Your following God's voice doesn't affect them negatively.

    Matt Fogle: Right, or selfishly. People who would say, "Jeff, I really feel like you should move to California and take this children's ministry job."

    Jeff Zaugg: Because I want to go visit and surf.

    Matt Fogle: That's right. Don't put those people on the team. So we gathered a team, and for two hours they asked clarifying questions. Really hard questions. If you really don't know what you're doing, "What do you really want to do?" is a hard question.

    Jeff Zaugg: So they put you guys in the hot seat. Was this digital or in person?

    Matt Fogle: They put us in the hot seat. We did it on Zoom. At the time, we were trying to discern: Do we pursue this Chick-fil-A opportunity to own a store? Do we go with another pastoral job? Do we move out to Phoenix to start a church?

    Jeff Zaugg: You brought change and a move to them, but it wasn't a definitive yes or no.

    Matt Fogle: Or do we feel like none of these options is right, and we need to keep waiting and seeking? Through that, we gained clarity: okay, let's go to Phoenix. From there, we decided to fly out here, me and my wife and our kids. We walked the neighborhood around where we live now, and together as a family asked, "Does this seem good to us?" I remember getting on the plane coming back from Phoenix and saying to my wife, "I think this is it, babe." She said yeah, and it's been an adventure.

    "It Seemed Good to Us" (18:53)

    Jeff Zaugg: So four months of you guys praying. Then you used the phrase a couple of times, "It seemed good to us." I know that's not how you normally talk, but that is a guiding phrase. Talk about that story in the Bible.

    Matt Fogle: In Acts 15, they come back from a missionary journey, and there are a bunch of non-Jewish people who have started following Jesus and are filled with the Spirit. The apostles come back to Jerusalem to the elders and say, "The gospel is not just for the people of Israel, it's for the rest of the world. Should we make these people be circumcised?" That was the question they were asking. Should we make them follow our Jewish customs or not? So they pray and fast, and collectively they come up with this unified answer, and these are the words they use: "It seems good to us and to the Holy Spirit within us that we shouldn't lay our Jewish customs on them."

    Jeff Zaugg: They were not definitive, "This is it." They had a posture. This goes back to gentleness and humility. I love that there's a posture of seeking, and a serious posture of time and gathering voices of wisdom, impartial voices of wisdom. What's that called one more time?

    Matt Fogle: The Quaker term is a clearness committee.

    Jeff Zaugg: Thank you. I will link that video clip that explains it. Then there was an exploratory trip, walking a neighborhood, flying out. All of that brought clarity. Part of this for me, I got to walk some of this out about a year and a half ago when stepping full time into fatherhood ministry. I walked some of it out without the tools, though, which is why I'm glad we're sharing this. In a few weeks, an author many of our listeners will have heard of, Bob Goff, is on the podcast, and he challenges everybody to quit something every Friday.

    The reason I think this is so important leading into 2022 is, what is the posture? Are we doing things because we feel it's right? Or do we have a pace, a rhythm, to hear from our Heavenly Father, to hear from voices of wisdom who are hearing from the Holy Spirit, and to hear from synchronization with marriage and kids? Because I know your kids were a part of that decision.

    Family Rhythms: Dinner, Lazy Dad Games, and Bedtime (21:40)

    Jeff Zaugg: This is all so helpful. I want to dial into some more specifics, though. When it comes to discerning the voice of God and rhythms for your kids at the ages they're at right now, what are some practices you've seen actually help teach them? Maybe the monthly day of prayer is one, maybe it isn't. Talk about some of those principles.

    Matt Fogle: I'm a huge believer that Jesus meets everybody in the gospels where they're at and invites them to take the next step from there. He doesn't say, "Hey, meet me in Jerusalem. I've never met you before, but go on this 30 mile walk and I'll meet you there." He literally encounters them face to face and invites them on a journey, and every single person is different. He doesn't say to every person He meets, "Sell everything you have and follow me." He says that directly to the rich young ruler. Or the woman caught in adultery, He is very uniquely encountering her.

    So none of what I'm about to say is meant to be prescriptive. Hopefully it just describes what God is doing in our family, and allows you to dream, as you listen with your spouse, about what your family rhythms could be like. What's an easy way for us to enter in? What's a free and light way? Because it's for freedom that you've been set free.

    Right now, some of our rhythms: my wife and I love to sit around the table and have dinner together. I know a lot of families have dinner, but I would ask you to consider, is that an intentional time or a rushed time? Around the dinner table, what kind of questions are you asking your kids? Are you listening to your kids in a way that shows them how to listen to one another?

    So often we'll throw out a question like, "Hey, Owen, tell us about your day," and he's not even two sentences in when one of our other kids hijacks it: "Oh, that reminds me, Dad, this happened today." You let them go on their rant, you're gentle with them, but then you say, "Hey, Eden, Owen was in the middle of telling a story. Can we go back to listening to him? Can I encourage you to really look him in the eyes and listen to him, and be curious about what happened in his day? You weren't there, so let's be curious together about what happened in his day." A rhythm of ours is just taking dinner time to be fully present with one another. We don't have our phones at the table.

    And we have four kids, so let me paint you a picture of reality. We're there for 90 seconds, and then the four year old says, "I spilled my milk."

    Jeff Zaugg: Milk spills are the best.

    Matt Fogle: My eleven year old says, "I need a glass of water," or "I'm done early." Somebody's always done eating before Mom sits down. So it's real. That's one of our rhythms. Even cleaning up together as a family, we take turns. Our seven year old is able to put stuff in the trash, and we're trying to show him servant leadership in the little things.

    Then I go upstairs and do what my wife calls lazy dad games. My kids' two favorite games are Ogres and Fairies, which is way too complicated to explain here, where they try to steal a stuffed animal near me, and if I get up, they run.

    Jeff Zaugg: Pretend to be asleep wrestling games are fantastic, because you get to lie down on soft carpet yet you're still fully engaged, and they never know when you're going to lurch.

    Matt Fogle: The other lazy dad game is called Impossible Catch, where I take a different stuffed animal every time, and my kids take turns, and I throw it to them. Depending on their age, I'm throwing to the eleven year old a lot differently than I'm throwing to the four year old. But I'm just sitting there, and we're laughing and having a good time. That seamlessly transitions into brushing teeth, getting pajamas on, and laying out clothes for the next day. I know that doesn't sound too spiritual, but we learned early on that when we prepare for the next morning, we're teaching our kids how to set intentional things out so the next morning isn't anxious and hurried.

    Jeff Zaugg: I need this. I need everything you're saying.

    Matt Fogle: We're doing things at night that set us up for a more unhurried morning together. We're setting out clothes, and we're making sure we're not fighting over where the shoes are the next day, and the backpacks, and all the thousand things you need to do with four kids.

    Then we interact with a Bible story. We've used Jared Patrick Boyd's Imaginative Prayer book. If you haven't seen that, it's an incredible resource. My seven and eleven year old love that book. Or The Jesus Storybook Bible. Or, like I said, maybe I read something that morning, like the morning I reread the story of Jericho and thought, "This would be really fun to act out. Let's act it out." We take that time very slowly. And again, I don't have my phone on at all during that time. It's on the charger. I'm trying to model for my kids: nothing is more important than being fully present with you right now.

    Jeff Zaugg: When is that window? Is it dinner through bedtime?

    Matt Fogle: Usually five to about eight o'clock, when I finally come downstairs and check my phone. Sometimes I've missed a "quote unquote" emergency.

    Jeff Zaugg: Sure. You missed it.

    The Smallest Things (27:28)

    Jeff Zaugg: That ties to a Winnie the Pooh quote you inspired me with. Do you remember it off the top of your head?

    Matt Fogle: "Sometimes the smallest things take up the most room in your heart."

    Jeff Zaugg: You got it. I'm going to link the Gospel Clarity on Parenting episode of your podcast. Your podcast is not a traditional church podcast. It's actually you guys discussing aspects of the gospel and rhythm. Did I describe that well?

    Matt Fogle: Perfect.

    Jeff Zaugg: The episode on parenting with this incredible doctor, who I may at some point ask for an introduction to interview myself.

    Matt Fogle: Dr. Mae Lynn Griffin. She's awesome.

    Jeff Zaugg: That would be a bonus resource around many of the things we're talking about today, and way beyond, as far as gospel parenting. She really dives in. But let's go back to Winnie the Pooh for a second. Why did that quote stand out to you?

    Matt Fogle: Because when we think about changing rhythms, or integrating the gospel into our daily life, we're tempted to think of really big things. "I'm going to walk through the whole Bible with my kids in a year. We're going to read for an hour and a half. Dinner time is going to be so fruitful and saturated with the gospel." We put these heavy things on ourselves that God is not laying on us at all. We put pressure where there doesn't need to be pressure. We put obligations on it. And honestly, it turns into a pride thing, not a humble thing. "Look how well I'm discipling my kids. Look how many verses we're memorizing together." That Winnie the Pooh quote reminds me that it's the little things. It's the daily bread, the little nuggets that Jesus gives us.

    A Word to One Dad (29:30)

    Jeff Zaugg: Matt, on the latest episode of your podcast, you ended by asking a specific question: think of one specific person you're already investing in. What would you want to speak over them, to encourage and challenge them? So if you could think of a dad right now, it could be me, but you could think of somebody else too. Sometimes that's helpful. Without our listeners knowing all the context, just speak what you feel the Holy Spirit has shown you that you want to pass on to him when it comes to the dad life.

    Matt Fogle: I am thinking of a specific dad, not you. What I would say to him is, very simply, Proverbs 4:23: out of the overflow of the heart comes everything. So guard your heart above all else, for from it flow springs of living water. I'm thinking of Jesus' description of what life with God could be like if the Holy Spirit fills us up. It'll be like streams of living water that turn desert hearts into flourishing gardens.

    What I would say to this dad is: if you want your kids to overflow with life, you've got to be connected to living water. And you are parched. It really is nobody else's responsibility but yours to say no to a lot of good things. To say no to late night Netflix. To say no to video games and busyness, and even overnight shifts that you don't need to take. You don't need to take it. If you were to say no to those things, God has such a bigger yes for you. But it's going to take intentionality, and it's going to take you guarding your heart above all else, for from it flows living water.

    This is meant to be an overflow journey, not one of scarcity, but one where you are being filled up daily to be poured out like a reservoir to fill up your kids and your wife. And you can do it. It's an invitation. God's not going to make you do this. You've got to take Him up on His invitation.

    Closing (31:47)

    Jeff Zaugg: Thank you so much for joining us today for this conversation from the vault with Matt Fogle, Episode 458. The show notes, the conversation links, the key takeaways, key quotes, and transcript are all at dadawesome.org/podcast. Just look for Episode 458.

    I mentioned this earlier, but I would love to invite you to join our twice a week prayer update list for these 20 minute prayer calls. Mondays, turning our hearts toward heaven. Fridays, turning our hearts toward home, the turning of a father's heart. The benefit ripples in ways we can never imagine. We gather for these 20 minute prayer calls on Zoom. Totally optional. But if you want to be in the loop, text the word PRAY or PRAYER to 651-370-8618.

    Speaking of that, I'm praying for you guys. Praying that you are dads of action. To be DadAwesome, we take action. We turn and we pursue with action the hearts of our kids. Praying for you, celebrating you, and very grateful for you. Have a great week.

    1. "Maybe God is the primary agent of my kids' spiritual formation, not me. And so it's my job to ask good questions and listen and be patient along the journey." (Matt Fogle)

    2. "Are we hoisting up our sails every day and saying, God, however you want to blow into my sails, however you want to blow into their sails, help me to be a good, nonanxious, cooperative friend?" (Matt Fogle)

    3. "We put these heavy things on ourselves that God is not laying on us at all. And we put pressure where there doesn't need to be pressure." (Matt Fogle)

    4. "Nothing is more important than being fully present with you right now." (Matt Fogle)

    5. "If you want your kids to overflow with life, you've got to be connected to living water. And you are parched." (Matt Fogle)

 

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