355 | Returning as a Prodigal Son, Praying the Hardest Prayer, and Leading by Following (Vince Miller: Part 2)
Episode Description
In the second half of this conversation, Vince Miller shares a vulnerable Prodigal Son story that demonstrates the gracious love of God. He'll also challenge you to pray the hardest prayer you'll ever pray to experience real change. Tune in for timely insights on discipleship, leadership, and embracing your identity as a son of God.
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Vince Miller is a passionate speaker, prolific author, and dedicated mentor to men. As the founder of Resolute, he exists to disciple and develop men to lead. Vince has three grown children and one grandchild.
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· The Bible is a story about men.
· It's not about being the hero dad; it's about being a child of the Dad who is the hero of the story.
· If you really want change in your life, you have to pray the hardest prayer of your life: "God, do whatever you want to change me."
· When you follow the Lord well as a son, you can lead other people into the same following.
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave me this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Vince Miller: [00:00:39] We need a wholesale change in who we are. And I think that's the big perspective that you're talking about. SonAwesome, right? That's the whole, the wholesale change of like, going, am I an awesome son of the Father? So I could be the dad that He wants me to be?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:57] Gentlemen, welcome back to DadAwesome. Today, Episode 355, this is the second half of my conversation with Vince Miller. If you missed last week, episode 354, jump back. You want to hear the first 24-25 minutes. The conversation certainly is the set up, the backdrop for the practical insights and the tactical dad wisdom you're going to get today. So, Vince Miller leads Resolute. He is, just he's that guy that just keeps going and going. Kind of the Energizer bunny of men's ministry, men's discipleship, getting men to love the word of God and to live it out and to take action. So I love Vince, I love him. And I'm so grateful for where we go in this half of the conversation. Before we jump in, though, I want to remind you guys, I am on a campaign. I'm on a mission to hear your voice. So if you've been holding back, I'm inviting every week on the podcast, hey, I would love to hear your voice. Leave us a 60 second voice message, you can go as long as 90 seconds. I just want to invite you guys, share with me ,what's helpful? How has DadAwesome been affecting your dad life? What would you encourage or advise or input that you'd give, feedback loops? I mean, really, anything, I just want to hear from you guys. Sometimes we share, if you share something that's, you know, encouraging or affirming of the ministry, I might share a clip here. So here's an example, and this one actually made me cry. This is from an amazing young leader, future dad named Nolan, and here's what he had to say.
Nolan Sullivan: [00:02:30] What's up, DadAwesome community? Hey, this is Nolan Sullivan. I'm from Minnesota, originally, but currently in Kansas City now. And I just as a, as a guy, I take a very different perspective probably than, than most. I'm not married. I don't have a family or anything like that. But I have just found the DadAwesome podcast to be so powerful and impactful in my life. Just growing up in a family that was not the dynamic I was hoping for. It was not that Christian family that, you know, really set the example. And my dad's an amazing man, but he was not able to be that spiritual father for me, so to hear so many voices of just these these great, great men and just to hear, you know, their honesty and their learning lessons and and for them just to share that with me as a 25 year old so that I can prepare for the next season of life has just been such a huge blessing. So thank you, Jeff, so much for what you do and just being obedient to where you feel the Lord calling you. And I just pray a blessing over every man that gets to be a part of this and hear that, whether it is married men or it's guys in my position. So thank you, Jeff, and keep crushing it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:41] Thank you, Nolan. So grateful for your heart and intentionality in building, laying the building blocks for your own journey to step into future fatherhood. It's incredible. I love your story and your eagerness to learn and grow and experience the healing journey through the stories of others. So thanks, Nolan. You can find the link to leave a voice message for DadAwesome in any of your podcast apps, just scroll down and look for the link that says leave DadAwesome a voice message. Okay, this is the second half, my conversation with Vince Miller. If you missed the first half, again, jump back. But this is us going deeper, more tactical, and we're going to jump right in with a question about the prodigal son story from the Bible and layering it with his grandpa and the role his travel played with welcoming him home. So here's the second half, episode 355, with Vince Miller. Reading the thread of your grandpa and his influence and how it affects the man who I want to be. The man who you are living into and want to be and want to help other men. So that's why I'm just so grateful that you shared so much of your story in this book. There's an overlap with the story of the prodigal son and the father and the older brother, younger brother, the return. And so maybe the story that will take us into talking more about this first of the three part book series, is the story of you returning and the welcome home that you received. I want to be that dad for my girls in the little and the big moments of the welcome home, the tenderness, the shiny eyes, the doesn't like it truly doesn't matter how low you went and how the other direction you ran and how much you hurt me. I'm safe and like you're welcome here. Could you just maybe share a little bit about your grandpa with that story of the welcome home, but then just even deeper into the principles of and the overlay into specifically us as dads?
Vince Miller: [00:05:46] Well, part of my story is that I'm not perfect, right. Even though my grandfather stepped in, I didn't, I didn't really grab on to all of his life or all the life he was offering and Jesus, right away. It took some testing. There were some things that God had to do in me. So there was a rebellious stage when I lived with my grandfather, I moved out for a while, went and partied it up and I had a moment of clarity when I was about 20 and I realized that the life that I was living was not the life that I wanted. I felt very unfulfilled. I feel very simple. All of a sudden I had a moment of clarity with God and I had to make this trip home. I was a few hundred miles away from home, I grew up in California, so I was a few hundred miles north of the San Francisco Bay area and I had to make this drive home. I happened to be in this old 59 Volkswagen truck.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:43] Stuck in which gear? What gear was it stuck in?
Vince Miller: [00:06:45] Second gear.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:46] Yes.
Vince Miller: [00:06:48] Stuck, stuck in second gear. Which is, you know, I mean, you're talking about an old air cooled Volkswagen with 36 horsepower, so top speed in second gear is like 22, maybe 23 if yuo pressed a little bit. But anyway, I'm a couple hundred miles from home and I got to make a trip home. And I know that it's time for me to come back. I didn't know how my grandfather was going to respond to me. I know that I had nowhere else to go. I was running out of money. I was running out of food. I was, I was the younger prodigal son, you know, coming home. That's how I think about it. Everybody has one of these moments because we're all both either the younger son or the older son. We're either recklessly self-centered and selfish or we're on the other side. We're self-righteous. You know, we're one or the other son. And for me, I had to have two reverse both from my self centeredness and my self-righteousness. And I believe we go through these bursts. I think that's why Jesus told that story, that genius story about us coming back to God. But anyway, for me, this was really a physical journey back to my, father, my grandfather. And after about seven hours of driving in that old Volkswagon, all burned out in second gear, smoke billowing out the back. I finally arrived at his house. Jeff, remarkable, I hadn't been back there in a couple of decades. I went back to San Francisco just a couple of months ago and saw this house. It was, it was a tender moment for me. But I remember pulling up in front of that house truck dying, of course, and I had to get out of the truck to make the walk up to the door, but there was this, there's this part of me that just didn't know if I could get out of this truck. Mainly because my legs were melted to the seat after hours, I didn't think I was going to be able to move. And the shame, of course, to and the regret and the guilt of wondering, is my grandfather going to accept me back to the home because I needed a fresh start and I knew it. But I did. I got up from the seat and I walked up to the front door and there's this big picture window in front of the house and behind it two Lazy Boy chairs that face the television at the time. And I could see my grandfather was sitting in one of the chairs, I could see his bald head on the back of the chair. And as soon as I saw him I, I just stopped. I just, I just didn't know if I was going to be able to walk up to the door. There were stairs that kind of led up to the front door. And I stopped and I was kind of just completely stalled out. I just didn't know if I could take another step. And I, I think actually in my mind, I was like, I'm going to walk back to the truck, because I couldn't mount the energy to make the steps and knock on the door. And all of a sudden I look over and the front door is open, there's my grandfather standing at the door and he's looking down at me. It's very intimidating position, by the way, this bald military guy looking down at you. And he looked down at me and then he looked toward the kitchen and where my grandmother was cooking. And he goes, Grandma, our son has come home. And I didn't realize it at the moment, but he was calling me the prodigal son. I had read that story. I rea it many syear later and discovered he was calling me the prodigal. But he opened his arms to me and waited for me to walk up the steps to him, which is exactly this whole picture of this prodigal God accepting us back as sons. And he embraced me and welcomed me into his home and said, You can stay, but things got to change. And I agreed to make significant changes in my life with him and just his love and grace to me in that moment were a very clear depiction of the love of God. It's actually what I wanted to know. How was my grandfather going to accept me and and and what was going to result from this moment. And it was, it was that moment right there, Jeff, that created a very positive trajectory for me. Like it was the first time I ever think I received love from a father in a gracious, merciful way. It wasn't unconditional. He wanted me to change. Yeah, but it, it, it it had a, it had an unusual acceptance to it of who I was, even in my sinful state with the hope that there would be change down the road. And man, dude, if we could live that out more often, think of the powerful effect that would have on our families, on our marriages, on our children, on our grandchildren. I, I'm so glad that I got to experience that that day. And I'm grateful for how he responded to me and in this very unexpected moment.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:38] I feel like with that story, myself, anyone, any dad listening can put ourselves into the story of your story or the prodigal son's story of like, am I living, am I livinG walking away from the Father? Headed that direction, taking what's mine and going to live for me. Am I, am I starting to turn back towards? Am I on the journey? Am I arriving at the house feeling full of shame? Or maybe it's the older brother of like, I'm living with all these rules and expectations and I think it's mine. I deserve it. The, my guess is, though, we can all place ourselves somewhere in this moment. And that's where I want to take us into essential elements and in this like, I mean, really a an invitation into your story, into the prodigal story and the father and the older brother side of the story into like a turning though, you even mention this like it's not, there's a like the Father wants us to turn and change. He'll celebrate us and welcome, there's a, there's a, there's an invitation for repentance and turning. And maybe before I try to summarize in my like, would you, just what's your heart behind you know this moment you know 20, 30, maybe 30 now books you've written for men? Why this book and like what's what's your hope for me and the dads at DadAwesome that would get a hold of this book? What's, what's your hope?
Vince Miller: [00:13:04] Yeah, it's, you know, it's the same thing that I hope with any book that I write is that men would come to understand that there's, the story of the Bible is a story about men, it is. The whole story of the Bible is a story about men. And it begins at the very beginning with God creating man and looking back at him saying He's very good. Giving him all authority, dominion, power to essentially be world rulers, if you think about it, but with the limits. And then we break the whole thing in the third chapter. We ruin the whole thing because we live outside of God's will. Well, the rest of the Bible, especially the rest of the Old Testament, is all about God searching for a man. That's what it's about. It's about Him searching for a man. And if you don't believe me, I think God actually becomes mildly irritated with mankind because He provides His own man, the beginning of the New Testament. This man is Jesus Christ, the perfect man. The man who came to live, to die, to raise again, to show us the path to true masculinity through manhood. And through Him, He essentially saves us or not essentially, does save us from our life of sin and provides us a resurrected life established in God so He can renew. He renews that relationship with Him so that we can become the men that God had intended us to be back in Genesis chapter one. And we can live this out through the life of Jesus Christ. It's that story right there, it's that story right there that I want men to hear time and time and time again. And the best part is it's told over and over and over and over again throughout the Bible. Because, because, get this, and I hope I'm not blowing up your entire DadAwesome podcast.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:54] No, no. Let's do it.
Vince Miller: [00:14:55] It's not about us being the hero Dad. It's about us being a child of the Dad who is the hero of the story. And His name is Lord and Father. And there is only one Lord and Father of all mankind and He's it. And we're not. And that's where it really, being a dad and being a father and being a husband, being a man, all begin. Because the reality is, is that you're going to leave this life with only three titles, disciple, father, husband. That's it. We spend all this time and energy working on all these other titles in our life, and these are the only three you're going to die with. And if we can come to terms with that and become the very best disciple, father and husband we can be, we learn how to do that by being a child of the Father of all mankind. And if we can live in that role and that identity, it makes everything else easier and better, and then we it relieves us of the responsibility to try to be the perfect dad, perfect husband, hero dad, hero, father. It doesn't matter anymore because we follow One who is the hero of the story and we're just a child of Him pointing everyone else to the same Father that we follow. So that's my hope for books like this, especially this one right here that you're talking about today.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:16:14] My, my friend Kevin, you know, he recaps the heartbeat of DadAwesome by saying, you have to be son awesome and that leads you in the direction of being DadAwesome. Like, like it's identity first, right? And I know this was something that was not even a big intent for you to make, a major part of your ministry at Resolute is, is offering prayer for men and but yet it became a very large, I think it's hundreds of thousands like it's just like impacting so many. But you found five recurring themes in these prayer request. I think they actually would speak to you, and there's a little bit of like, there's break through attached, but the way you framed like people ask for prayer and want a quick fix here, but there's something upstream. So I think, I'll recap them quick with the 5 and then it just want to dialog for a little bit here. But the 5 it was marriage, things in their marriage prayer for that. Finances of course you hear those are the top two things that are. Compulsion, addiction, things that are just like we're stuck in and choosing to go to instead of God's best. Health things, so health and medical stuff and then career challenges. Did that right? Those are the five?
Vince Miller: [00:17:31] Nailed it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:32] So from those five, right away, I'm sure guys are like, yeah, man, I could use prayer for this or that as well. Like those, I, I have needs in this area, but the way you like spun it and you're like, reframe, it's that actually let's pause on those prayer requests. Yes, we'll pray for you. But what about this? Could you just talk about how you frame a different way of thinking about breakthrough with those areas?
Vince Miller: [00:17:54] Yeah, that's so good. So good. I'm glad you brought this up because usually people do want to talk about this kind of stuff, but they're, just I'm not going to restate what you said, but just to clarify, I have a page on our website where men write in prayer requests and I've gotten hundreds of thousands of them, and I have narrowed it down to five, five predominant ones. And only five, by the way, there's never been a 6th one, believe it or not. So these five categories and I came to learn this one thing from all these prayer requests, is this, is that men want you to pray for a change in their life, but they don't often want to be change. In other words, in other words, of all these prayer requests I've gotten, I can count on maybe 1 or 2 hands today, how many men have written me saying it is me who needs to be changed, not their circumstances? And that's what I think men fail to understand, is we need identity. We need old identity, a whole fail identity transformation. In other words, when Jesus said, Come follow me, what He was saying is actually come follow Me and leave everything else behind. And we just don't like that. We want our circumstances to change, not us to change. And that's unfortunate because Jesus wants us to change, not our circumstances. It's just laughable because all these prayer requests come in, and you're like they're all the same things we all want. I understand that you want your marriage to change, your your sin to change, your career to change, your health, I understand all of that. I get it. But what Jesus is after is change within you, not your circumstance. Because otherwise you're just going to come begging for more and more and more. And that's why Jesus started turning people away, because all they wanted was to change their circumstance and not to change to who they are. And Jesus was always driving after that. He didn't want their things. He wanted them. And that's what I think, we need a wholesale change in who we are. And I think that's the big perspective that you're talking about, son awesome, right? It's the whole, the wholesale change of like going, am I, am I an awesome son of the Father so I could be the dad that He wants me to be? And yeah, we have to ask ourselves that hard, introspective question is another thing that God is going to give me that I want, or I think that I want really going to bring about change or not? And I'll say that the bottom line is, no, it's not you winning the lottery ain't going to help, you getting a new job isn't going to help you. Finding resolution to your marriage ain't going to help, you know, because things don't help those things sometimes, especially when wherever we go, there we are, you know?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:20:41] So there's an, there's a realization of true identity. There's a like, like being the son, realizing what He's, who God sent Jesus, what Jesus has done and an invitation to change. Like your grandpa said, you're well, like our son is returned. But there's actually, there's a, there's a, there's an expectation that you as a loved son are turning. How would you challenge and encourage a dad who's like, that's me. I've been asking for surface prayers, I mean, it's not surface, deep prayers, but like, I haven't made the change. I haven't taken the action, the ownership, the the step towards repentance and a new direction. How would you, how would you challenge us?
Vince Miller: [00:21:23] Yeah. That's a, that's a good one because I'm a, I'm a guy who likes to give challenge. But I would just say this, like if you're a guy out there who really wants change in your life, you got to pray the hardest prayer you're ever going to pray. It's not that God would change your circumstance. You've got to ask God willingly to change you. And you have to say, I think it is the most challenging prayer a man will ever pray, Jeff. God, I need to be changed. Do what ever You want to change me. And most men are scared to death of that prayer because they actually believe God will answer. But there's been a few times, more than the few times I prayed that in my life where God has produced amazing things and it may not be right away and it may create some discomfort for you. But holy smokes, if you, if you want to know iron sharpening iron, you want to know that experience, that means you got to subject yourself to the grinding wheel. That means sparks have to fly. Smoke has to bellow. There has to be paying. There is screeching in the background. You, If you want to be forged, you have to submit yourself willingly to it. And that's what Christ asks from all of us. In fact, Christ didn't ask us to do anything He wasn't willing to do. He willingly subjected Himself to the most painful death ever known to mankind still today, for us. And we've got to be willing to subject ourselves to that same kind of willingness and I'm not saying you need to just unnecessarily inflict pain on your life. That's not what I'm saying. But you definitely should be brave and bold enough to pray the prayer and say, God, is there something in me that you need to do business with? And then to open up to it and allow, and allow God to answer that prayer because He will. So be a brave, bold man today and pray a bold, brave prayer.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:23:30] Yes Yes. I want to, I want to end here because I know that, like you, your heart is to spark not only transformation in one man, but the courage to be a change maker for other men. There's a there's a ripple effect. And, and the enemy has planted shame baggage, hurt, disqualification. Satan, like, wants to tell us as dads, you can't be the spark to help other men. So even, even some some guys listen are like, think of DadAwesome as a self-help. Help me be an awesome dad for my kids. And we've said this over and over. Being DadAwesome is not a solo pursuit of you as a dad. You actually are empowered, equipped and invited, and your Heavenly Father wants you to spark change in other men, other dads, be a leader. Part of your healing will happen as you are welcoming and leading and catalyzing other dads to experience healing. So anyway, I'm deeply passionate, but I know you are as well. Could you kind of just share your heart on the invitation to be a leader to the men, to the dads listening?
Vince Miller: [00:24:39] Absolutely. I think to some degree, leadership in the Bible is a little bit of a misnomer. Jesus calls us to follow Lordship. And when I am following the Lord, well, as a son, then I am leading other people into the same following. Therefore, as a follower, when I see myself as a son of the Father and I begin to look over at my children as brothers and sisters and my wife as the sister, I don't take that too far, because thar could get weird. But when I start to see them as my my family, as my brothers and sisters, I am leading them into the same following that I'm engaged in, and calling them to follow their Lord and Savior. And guess what, that relieves us to all the pressure to Lord it over them or to be the hero of the story. That's the focus of your energy and time as a father, as a husband, as a leader, as a man, engaged that way with that mindset and everything that flows out of it will flow out of it differently. That's why Jesus said, Come, follow Me.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:53] Wow. I'm going to ask you to pray over us Dads. Any last words, though? Is there anything that we didn't get to that you're like, and this is well before you pray for us?
Vince Miller: [00:26:01] Only this, DadAwesome podcast is awesome, dude. I love you, Jeff. I love what you're doing. Guys need to listen and share this because there are dads out there that need to hear it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:26:14] Thank you. Thank you. Would you pray for us?
Vince Miller: [00:26:17] Yeah. Great God and Father of all mankind, we come to You, the sons and daughters of the King today requesting that You help us to be the fathers, the husbands, the leaders that You want us to be. We pray for all the pain of the past that You would, You would forget that and give that we pray that You provide healing for our future leadership in our family as we pray for the legacy that we live, that it will bring about a new time of restoration, reconciliation so that we can live out, live out our callings to the fullest. We pray this in the name of your son, Jesus. Amen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:27:06] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 355 with Vince Miller. All the show notes, the links, the action steps and the transcripts, it's all going to be found at dadawesome.orgpodcast. And I want to encourage you guys check out vincemiller.com and check out the book Essential Elements from the Forged Godly Men series. The daily devo that Vince releases is incredible. It's short, it's impactful. And then he's also doing the Vince Miller Show once a week, which is the longer like 50 minutes on YouTube and you can jump in, watch a few episodes and then he's got a system for you to kind of become a member and get the whole resource of vaults of everything he's already created. So check out vincemiller.com. Guys, thank you for leaving us a voice message. I want to invite you guys one more time to pause, click the link and leave us a voice message. We'd love to hear from you. And again, cheering for you. Cheering you on as you step into being DadAwesome for your family. And again, remember being DadAwesome is being a spark, being a catalyst, being an innovator. So invite some other dads in, you can share dadawesome.org with any other dad to say, Hey, check out the resources here. It could be today's podcast or just in general to share the ministry, DadAwesome. This movement has only gone for almost seven years because of dads passing on the resource to other dads. That's how we, that's how we reach more, reach more dads and encourage more dads and cheer for more dads. So appreciate you guys. Have a great week.
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· 15:19 - "The reality is that you're going to leave this life with only three titles, disciple, father, husband. That's it. We spend all this time and energy working on all these other titles in our life, and these are the only three you're going to die with. And if we can come to terms with that and become the very best disciple, father and husband we can be, we learn how to do that by being a child of the Father of all mankind. And if we can live in that role and that identity, it makes everything else easier and better, and then we it relieves us of the responsibility to try to be the perfect dad, perfect husband, hero dad, hero, father. It doesn't matter anymore because we follow One who is the hero of the story and we're just a child of Him pointing everyone else to the same Father that we follow. So that's my hope for books like this, especially this one right here that you're talking about today."
· 18:25 - "Men want you to pray for a change in their life, but they don't often want to be change. In other words, of all these prayer requests I've gotten, I can count on maybe 1 or 2 hands today, how many men have written me saying it is me who needs to be changed, not their circumstances? And that's what I think men fail to understand, is we need identity. We need old identity, a whole fail identity transformation. In other words, when Jesus said, Come follow me, what He was saying is actually come follow Me and leave everything else behind. And we just don't like that. We want our circumstances to change, not us to change. And that's unfortunate because Jesus wants us to change, not our circumstances."
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