303 | Redefining Success, Abiding in Christ, and Becoming a Whole-Hearted Dad (Banning Liebscher)
Episode Description
What’s holding dads back from viewing fatherhood as a gift? In this episode, Banning Liebscher tackles some of the most complex obstacles dads face. With joyful reflection and practical advice, Banning will inspire you to approach parenting with a purpose.
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Banning Liebscher is a pastor, speaker, and author. Along with his wife, SeaJay, he founded Jesus Culture, a ministry of worship, conferences, and leadership development. Together, they have three young adult children: Ellianna, Raya, and Lake.
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· Master being self-aware and others-aware.
· The danger for dads is not a lack of activity; it’s activity that is not going anywhere because you have not defined success.
· How you love your children will reveal God’s love to them.
· The goal is not to work harder but to abide more.
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Podcast Intro: [00:00:01] Being a great father takes a massive amount of courage. Instead of being an amazing leader and a decent dad, I want to be an amazing dad and a decent leader. The oldest dad in the world gave you this assignment, which means you must be ready for it. As a dad, I get on my knees and I fight for my kids. Let us be those dads who stop the generational pass down of trauma. I want encounters with God where He teaches me what to do with my kids. I know I'm going to be an awesome dad because I'm gonna give it my all.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:00:39] Welcome back to DadAwesome. Guys, my name is Jeff Zaugg and I am so thankful that you are listening. Today, we have episode 303 with Banning Liebscher and you guys are going to recognize his voice because for the past year, year and a half, his voice is in the intro kind of the intro, trailer, bumper, whatever you call that. The, the charge at the beginning of every podcast episode, you hear Banning's voice and then if you listened and watched episode 300, a few weeks ago, he was the first of the 31 guests, he was the first. But guys, just a week after we dropped episode 300, I was in Sacramento, California, and I was able to spend some time at Jesus Culture. So Banning's the founder of Jesus Culture, the worship movement. They've got a few church locations. He's an author, speaker, and he welcomed me to come by. So I drove the RV into the parking lot of Jesus Culture and he's like, get in here. And we spent some time together hanging out with the broader team, but we got, we pulled out the microphones and had a conversation for DadAwesome. So today, episode 303, this is an in-person conversation. It's fresh, because we just recorded a few weeks ago, my second round, because it was three and a half years earlier that I had the first round with Banning, my second round conversation. So here's Banning Liebscher. Banning, thank you for going round two DadAwesome.
Banning Liebscher: [00:02:08] Round two. This is actually where I feel like I've arrived because if you get invited for one time on a podcast, that's, you know, but if you get invited back on the same podcast, that's officially where, where...
Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:19] There's more wisdom to mind for.
Banning Liebscher: [00:02:21] Well, it's just that they, if they want you back at all, that's a good sign. So, you know.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:24] Well, what you don't know is for the last year we play a little 22nd bumper at the beginning of DadAwesome and your voice kicks it off. The first just few seconds, two seconds, and I think what you say it's about being a dad takes a tremendous amount of courage. Like you drop some kind of like a charge of like, this is hard stuff.
Banning Liebscher: [00:02:42] It's hard. It's a lot of work.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:43] This is real.
Banning Liebscher: [00:02:44] Yes.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:02:45] And last time that you joined it was three and a half years ago, Episode 126, we talked about dads who dream. We talked about identity and mission, the speed of obedience, surrounded by community. We talked about Reinhard Bonnke, a little bit, Living a life on Fire. And being a dad who travels and you give a couple kind of tips for that. So we, we might come back to some of those topics, but...
Banning Liebscher: [00:03:08] Do you know how much changed? You know how much has changed in three and a half years?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:11] Well, I added a daughter. Did you have any kids?
Banning Liebscher: [00:03:14] No. No kids. I've added some ducks in my house.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:18] Wait. Pet ducks?
Banning Liebscher: [00:03:19] Ducks. We have ducks and chickens and dogs and all that. Yes.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:03:22] Why did you add ducks?
Banning Liebscher: [00:03:24] Because I married a woman who's crazy because I just flat out married the opposite of myself. And we've been married 25, it'll be 26 years pretty soon. And the amount of animals, I grew up in a home, my dad was a police officer, but very clean, very orderly. You want to meet like somebody who is orderly. I can tell you right now what's in their pantry. What's in there, and where it's at, how many are there. He's got backups in the garage. So I did not grow up with animals. And then I married my wife and I married, in essence, a zookeeper for the last 26 years. So it's just animals in our home, full of life, full of chaos, full of poop everywhere. But, man, my kids love it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:04] Now I think your daughter, one of your daughters, was in her twenties, last conversation. They're both in their twenties now?
Banning Liebscher: [00:04:09] I got two of them in their twenties now. Yeah.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:10] Either married?
Banning Liebscher: [00:04:11] No, no. I've got a 24 year old. She is living at home, still. And going to nursing school locally. So she lives at home, still in school. And I have a 21 year old who, just a few months ago, moved out to San Diego to finish up her college, second part of her college down there in San Diego. And then I've got a son who is going to graduate, he's a senior this year in high school. So I'm kind of, I'm kind of on whatever phase of life that is. People are like you, you hitting empty nest? I'm like, Maybe, but they haven't left. So I don't know. I don't know what empty nest is, but they're still all at my house.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:04:43] But you're at the launch season, the chapter.
Banning Liebscher: [00:04:45] I am there where things have shifted for sure. It's it's interesting, it gets, for what I do, which is I travel. So I'll shut it down, because my son plays basketball kind of mid-November to mid-March. I just shut it all down. I'm not going to, I don't miss a game. But, but it is interesting, the older they get, it's less cost, things become less costly. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, Hey, I need to go, I'm going away on this trip and when they're little, it's just it's so costly. It has a little bit less now, you know, you stay connected with them a little bit different.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:17] Yeah. The weight of decision making to leave for a week in Australia is not as big a deal.
Banning Liebscher: [00:05:21] A good example is, I was just gone for a week and a half in Australia. That trip, I mean, I may have gone before because that's what the Lord's calling us to but it was definitely more like this is costly what I'm having to do. It's less cost now.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:34] You son, It was like a zero withdrawal for your son. He's like, I'm good. I'm good, dad.
Banning Liebscher: [00:05:39] He didn't even notice I was gone. That's not fully true, but he's like, I'm good, Dad. He's living his best high school life right now, and we love it. It's his video games and friends and basketball. It's fun.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:49] You had added a hot tub recently. This is again, three and a half years ago. And has that, do you still have the hot tub at the, on the home front?
Banning Liebscher: [00:05:55] Was in it last night.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:05:56] Has it been a tool that helps with the dad life or more just your relaxing?
Banning Liebscher: [00:06:00] 100 percent. Because what I find is this whether it's a boat, whether it's a hot tub, finding places where there is no technology in there. Has what's been, so a hot tub for us, as silly as it is, you know, there's four of us sitting in there. You're not holding anything and it's just you're directly just sitting across from somebody. So I was in there last night, not with the kids, just me and my wife. We'll just go in there and just use talk. It's kind of like there's nothing else going on. There's no other distractions. Which is it's interesting, it's hard to find that right now. It's hard to find where you're just sitting somewhere and there's nothing else going on. So, yes, the hot tub the last three years has been gold. We piled so many people in that thing and, you know, friends and all that.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:42] I love it. Now, your daughters, being in their twenties, are at the age that I could have reached out to them and said, Hey, I want to interview you guys about your dad. Maybe I will at some point. But look, thinking through their perspective for a minute...
Banning Liebscher: [00:06:54] You probably shouldn't. Let's just, let's just have me say how great of a dad I am.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:06:57] Well, I'd love to hear your perspective through their lens because I'm a girl Dad. My oldest is ten. And if you ask my daughter right now she'd give you some specifics, but, but to ask your daughters, Hey, what are a couple of ways Dad got it right? You know, in the season before because obviously you're still dad to them now.
Banning Liebscher: [00:07:14] Yeah. Well, I mean, as they get older, they can articulate both, like, what did he not get right and what did he get right. It's interesting, they can articulate both. We had my daughter, I got married at 21, became a dad at 22, my oldest. And so, I mean, I'm in my twenties trying to figure out my own life. I remember when she turned 18, I was like, Hey, sorry about that whole, raising you in my twenties thing. Sorry about that whole thing.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:37] Earlier.
Banning Liebscher: [00:07:38] But yeah, what would they say? So, so your question is what would they say that I got right?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:07:43] Yeah. But then hit the other side as well. If there's a couple of things top of mind that you're like I think from their perspective...
Banning Liebscher: [00:07:47] I probably know what I did wrong more than I did right. We stayed connected to my kids. I will say this, that I am quick to apologize. I'm some, I'm sometimes I'm quick to react, but I'm also quick to apologize and and, you know, believe deeply in my girls, for them. We we've done a good job, as I look at my kids now, and the problem is, it's probably more of my wife. It's not, it's not only my wife, but my wife would be the catalytic of, we're we're really connected to our kids, so even at 24, at 21, at 18. And so I think we've, I think we've done that well. I don't even know what they would say I've done well with, that's probably part of my my critical nature. I'm probably more critical. What I didn't do right, I would go back and be way more, my thing is probably, how would I say this? We're talk, we're talking real now on the podcast.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:08:41] Here we go.
Banning Liebscher: [00:08:43] I probably was too critical. And then not, not patient or relaxed enough. But so much of this, I don't know, guys that are listening right now, part of why we have to work so hard at getting internally healthy is because we don't even know what's going on inside of us and therefore how we respond. So, I've learned now, I'm 47 years old, I've learned now that when life is a little bit crazy, when you're going through stuff, I need, I want to go home. To a home where I can just relax. Well, for me, that means that it's in order. Well, the problem is, I married somebody who's not that.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:09:29] You got ducks.
Banning Liebscher: [00:09:30] And it's, it's, it's not, she's not a slob at all. But she doesn't mind chaos. She doesn't mind when, in fact, for her, that's life. I'm a straight line, minimalistic, clean interior design. She's a big, fluffy couch with blankets thrown over and pillows and and, you know, and so my point is, is she's, like she's okay with dogs and all this type of stuff. I'm saying all this to say is I think I was probably internally so stressed or whatever that it would just leak. It's just leaking out on the kids. So because I was so unaware, well, now I'm just more aware. And either I can do something about it or I can manage like, Oh, no, no, I can't let that thing leak out...
Jeff Zaugg: [00:10:17] Right.
Banning Liebscher: [00:10:17] On my kids. So when I'm in my twenties and thirties, I'm so unaware of what's going on inside of me. I don't even know how it's impacting people. You know, so I think it's that. And then for me, the critical nature of having to manage, how would I describe this? It's one of the reasons why I'm good at what I do is if I come into a room and there's 100 things, 98 of them are good, 2 of them are off, I want to talk about the two that are wrong. That's what I see, because that's what's stopping us from getting where I'm going. Well, it's not that I'm going to stop seeing that, but I've had to learn how to not have that be what I lead with. So I'm leading team, we need to keep getting better. We need to keep moving forward. But if all I'm leading with is the two things that I see, we have to work on rather than the 98 that are good, it causes problems. Well, at home, I would come home and my kids would be in there and there would be, I don't, you know, there'd be a, there'd be food out. And I'm not mad, I'm not angry, but I walk in and go, Hey, guys, what's going on, man? Let's make sure we put that food away. Like, that's what I'm leading with. And I think that I do need to have the conversation about like, Hey, guys, let's make sure we're picking up after ourselves, but I was completely unaware. Because I wasn't mad either. I wasn't, I'm not angry about it that I would go back and do that differently. I would not have led or even probably mentioned a bunch of stuff.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:43] Right.
Banning Liebscher: [00:11:44] That's a really long answer that I'm giving you.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:11:46] That's helpful. I'm curious, though, was there a point or a book you read or a mentor who came alongside, or that helped you understand what's going on inside, that's leaking out?
Banning Liebscher: [00:11:56] Yeah, for sure. There's a, there's a, there's actually a leadership organization called Integrus. It's a guy name Lyle Wells. He's been on a lot of our podcasts. He comes to our pastors conference. They do something that came out of a there's an organization called the Flippen organization, this guys last name, Flippen. And he wrote a book and he honestly, anybody listening right now, I could not recommend enough. There's a book called The Flip Side, and the guy's name is Flip Flippen.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:12:22] The best name ever.
Banning Liebscher: [00:12:23] So, it's called The Flip Side, and it talks about constraints. It talks about kind of it just talks about different constraints in our life. You got to go read it. But, but they actually have something, you got to hire them for all this, but they actually will come in and give like a 360 of people giving like it's a whole test they do. So me getting feedback, from people, and I think this is maybe the most important thing is that's why right now, my 24 year old, she absolutely can give me feedback about how I responded when she came home the other day and was excited to tell me something. And I was and I was, I was irritated about something else. She will give me feedback about that. Man, that six year old doesn't want to give me feedback about that. So then, so then can my wife give me feedback about that? Can people around me give me feedback? So probably the biggest thing is people giving me feedback about how they were experiencing me and then me having to go do the work around, oh, what's going on inside of me? And honestly, I think this is why, I mean, people have different opinions about all the Enneagram, but Enneagram, Disc test, strength finders, love languages, you know, there's the Myers-Briggs, they're all these different ones. Those helped go, Oh, this is how I'm wired. And so they're there for this is when I'm stressed, how I respond, when I'm overwhelmed, how I respond, when I'm scared, when I'm hurt. I think that those things actually helped me a ton to go, Oh, okay, I've got to then figure out.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:01] It's amazing. And the discovery, I'm not, my default isn't to go try to like it, discover more of how do I work and how am I ticked. But I know that there's benefit for my little girls and my wife if I go do some of that discovery work.
Banning Liebscher: [00:14:13] Because people are encountering you. This is, we have a leadership school here, and one of the things that I probably tell them most, not most, a lot, is one of the things that you have to get world class is being self-aware and others-aware. So when I walk into a room, I'm aware of others, but I am aware of myself. In other words, I am aware of how I'm impacting the environment. People that are unaware of how they're impacting the environment are the ones that people don't want to be around. And so for me, I'm like, I don't, I'm not interested in doing a deep dive in, but I am interested in knowing, like, how were you experiencing me?
Jeff Zaugg: [00:14:55] Right. Right.
Banning Liebscher: [00:14:57] What message are you getting? Because I definitely don't want you to experience that.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:15:02] Yeah. One thing that, that I just know is so true about you, Banning, is it's just the all in the like, I'm not backing down. I have a clarity about my purpose, my mission. And one of the things that you've challenged me, you challenged us, three and a half years ago with is is this idea of living fully engaged and just being kind of all in for faith, but also as dads. So, here as just a big picture question, what do you think is stopping dads from being fully engaged and seeing fatherhood as a gift? What's, what's the hold back? What's stopping us from doing that?
Banning Liebscher: [00:15:35] Yeah. Well, I think that a wrong definition of success. So, I think that we live in a society that has defined success by what you do or what you've accomplished or what you have or what your status is. So I think that as Christians and then even as, even as people that maybe aren't believers, but but for certain as Christians. If we don't get success right, so the illustration I would make is Paul says, Paul says, Hey, I, I ran, opposed to somebody who's running aimlessly. I boxed as opposed to somebody who boxed him there. Paul is not making a distinction between somebody who runs and somebody who's not running and he's not making a distinction between somebody who's boxing, somebody not boxing. He's making a distinction between somebody who's running with purpose and knows the finish line and somebody who's running aimlessly because they don't know what the finish line is. Somebody that knows how to hit the mark and somebody who is doing stuff but not hitting the mark. So and we could talk through Paul, but Paul knew what the mark was. And so, so he was not unclear about what the finish line is. He wasn't unclear. So I would just say this to all the men, if you don't know what the bull's eye is, then the danger zone is this, You'll get to the end of your life and say, I was really busy, but didn't actually hit the mark. So So, Paul, my concern, with men especially, is not lack of activity. It's activity that's not actually going anywhere because you haven't defined success. So so so when we say, well, what's success? Then I would say, well, John 15, says that we're called to bear fruit that remains. And I'm convinced in that John 15 passage, if you read it, it's in the context of loving one another, than I think fruit remains is people. So so my point is this my like, the greatest thing I could ever do is invest my life in people. Starting with...
Jeff Zaugg: [00:17:50] That's right.
Banning Liebscher: [00:17:51] Starting with my children. And at the end of my life, when I look back and this is what I want people to do, I want, go imagine 95 years old sitting on a porch somewhere overlooking a field, looking back over your life. Would you have said I, I was super busy but didn't really actually invest in things that remain? Or would you say, no, I invested my life in the things that remain, which is people starting with my kids. And I have, you know, it's an intriguing thing. This is going to be all, this is probably going to be, I don't wanna be melodramatic, my my my daughter is in is in is going into nursing and she was working at the hospital recently and there was a man who died. He was 75 years old. She was just mentioning how there was no family there, just kind of a neighbor. And I don't, I don't know his story. I don't know anything about it. There could be a variety of reasons for that. But I was, I was thinking in comparison to Bill Johnson, who's the pastor up in Redding. When his dad passed away, I was there that night, I left shortly before he passed away, but we were there that night. And I mean, there was 40 in his room. His kids, his grandkids. They were just in this room. And then I went to his, this would've been 2004, so, so I would have been, 47 -20, so, whatever. So, so, and I remember going to his memorial service. And, and, and person after person, and they were just interrupting, in fact. Guys were just getting up and grabbing the mic. We're all speaking about the impact that he had on them. We're talking about how nobody believed, that when you were talking to him, you felt like you were the only person that mattered in the world at that moment. And I remember, I'm a driven guy, I want to I want to fill stadiums. I want to build significant things. I want a ministry that changes the world. And just watching him going, I need to live with the end in mind. I need to live going, on my deathbed, is the room going to be crammed full of my kids and grandkids or just friends? You know, not not just physical kids, but spiritual kids, all that. And at my memorial service are people, what are they going to be saying? And if you can, if you can define success like that, like not one person got up and said, oh, man, the church that Earl built, the building, how many remember the money he raised for that building? So phenomenal. How many remember the book sales he had? How many? Like, there wasn't a mention of it. It was simply this man believed in me. He invested in me. He gave me a chance when others didn't. My point is this is everybody is listening right now, this is, dude, you're asking me questions that I'm now just really giving you long answers for. Why do we not invest in our kids at the level we need to invest in? We 100% have the wrong definition of success. We are chasing after something that at 95 year old, 95 years old, we will not even be talking about.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:16] Right.
Banning Liebscher: [00:21:16] And all we'll be talking about is the kids and the people that we poured our lives out for. That's what we'll be talking about. I'm not going to be 95 years old talking about how many albums we sold. Remember that book I wrote? And oh remember that, remember that Sunday that I preached? We won't be talking about that. We'll be talking about the fruit in my life that's people.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:21:41] And the second side to that, this is, I'm thinking about the one at a time, the the metrics that are just like, it takes one at a time to impact somebody' like this And over the long period of time. But also, what is my Father in heaven, what's God going to ask me about? Like, I've heard you kind of explain like that side of the leg, or of the success defining success? Will you take it one step further to that side?
Banning Liebscher: [00:22:04] So, so I try to, you can't define success apart from eternity. It's it's not possible. We're very short term thinking people. But ultimately, the Bible's like, you're going to stand for God one day. What's going with you to eternity? I mean, 70 years in the, on the earth is is is just so tiny compared to 7 trillion times 7 trillion years of eternity. So, so the question that I ask myself often is when I stand before God one day, is this going with me into eternity? Am I, is Jesus going to ask me about this? So, so when I stand before, so what I get stressed about I'm a, I'm a need for significance guy. I'm a type-A Him, He's not going to say, Banning, how many books you sell? He's going to say, did you love your wife really well? He's going to, He's gonna, and so faithfulness and obedience, He's going to say, Were you faithful with what I gave you? Which, by the way, your kids are the, you know, the number one arrow the Lord's given. So are you faithful with what I've given you? Were you obedient with what I asked of you? And so that's what's going to matter at the end of the life. And so, so that's what's going on with me to eternity. So God's not going to be impressed by how many people I spoke to. He's going to ask me, Did you love your kids? Did you love your wife? Did you, did you do what I asked of you? So a lot of people, I think they still define success by what, you know, They're driven by something that's not based out of obedience. Like I feel to say what you're doing, is it because this is what God has asked of you and it's your best effort at being faithful with what He's giving you? And I think a lot of people are like, Well, no, I just, you know, and so. If we get there, though, then there's no way that this doesn't affect how you interact with your family. There's no way.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:02] It's central.
Banning Liebscher: [00:24:04] I mean, it's at the core of what He's asking us. And listen, I mean, I don't know how many people, I don't know how many men would be listening to that aren't dads. But I'm talking about even from a spiritual standpoint, you may not have kids right now. You may not be married right now. Still, God's going to ask you about your relationships. He's going to ask you about the people that he put in your life, the people that you're called to disciple, the people that you're called to pour your life out for. 100%.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:24:31] And my girls see me in relationship, the one at a time, beyond to just them, just other people that I'm in interaction with. They're not seeing me in the big, long, like definitions of success that the world might say. They're seeing me one at a time. How does Dad treat and interact with and give his presence to?
Banning Liebscher: [00:24:49] Did you love that guy really well? Did you, did you see the image of Jesus in somebody today? Honestly walking by, I think sometimes we walk by homeless guys and we're irritated by whatever, you know, guys that are maybe even just mentally unstable or they're just talking to themselves that are dirty. And even, even our kids seeing us stop and recognize the image of God in somebody to really actually get the heart of God, not just, I'm saying that, that's what they see. They're not, they're not seeing like, hey, you know how many podcast downloads we had this month? Even that, your kids aren't going like, Whoa, dad, what kind of numbers you run with that podcast, dad? They saw how you interacted with somebody. That's totally their definition of success.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:32] Yep. They're not impressed of the things that don't matter which and we get wrapped up. I get impressed with things that don't matter far, far too often.
Banning Liebscher: [00:25:39] Oh yeah, for sure.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:25:39] Yeah. A really practical area I want to get into is falling madly in love with Jesus. Because it's so like a desire for me to help my girls fall madly in love with Jesus. Huge desire, huge like purpose of my role as a dad. But yet, like, what does it look like? And I can't force, but I want to see, like, that hunger stoked in my little girls. And so, I said practical as kind of joking, but also like, are there other ways or is there any coaching you give me to helping my girls fall madly in love with Jesus?
Banning Liebscher: [00:26:16] Well, I'd say couple of things, one, 1 John 4:19. What we know is this, is that we we loved Him because He first loved us. The, the concept being you can't actually love God apart from God. You can't actually love God, like, our love is a response to encountering His love for us. It's why the cross is so central, because the cross is for God so loved the world. So the cross and what Jesus did is just one huge I love you, you know, at the end of the day. But, but so when I encounter His love for me, that is when my love for Him is awakened. The reason why I love Him is because He first loves me. So we have to keep that, in fact, I would say this, that when in Revelation, when when there's the the reprimand against you've done all the good stuff, but there's one thing I have against you, you've left your first love. That first love concept is not how I used to love Jesus. It's not like when you first got saved. Remember, you were super radical and you loved Jesus. You got to go back to that. It's actually, the revelation of He first loved me. So the concept is, is I, so we have to help our kids both create an environment where they're encountering the love of God and where they know how to position themselves to continually be in that place. In fact, we could just, John 15, He says, as a father loved me, that's how I've loved you. Now here's your job, abide in that love. We are not called to abide in our love for Him. We're called to abide in His love for us. When I keep myself in the position of encountering His love for me, I'll naturally love Him. But this is what I would say, that, that God reveals Himself through us. So how, how, so, so I kids need to be able to encounter the love of God themselves. But they also encounter the love of God through us. How I love them reveals, this is, this is the command that Jesus gives us as the fathers love me, so I've loved you. Now go love people like that. He said, I want you, He said, God, the Father loves God the Son. God the Son loves you. Now go love people the same way. So we have this unbelievably, what feels like a daunting task in front of us, which is I am actually supposed to go love people the same way God loves me. And in doing that, it is part of the revelation that will come to people of of the nature and character of God's love for us. So I think if you want, you have to create environments where they can encounter the love of God for themselves. And then you have to be that as well for them. Because anybody who doesn't really passionately love God, it's because they just haven't had an encounter or a revelation of His love. It's just, they just, that's what they need to have.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:29:10] Yeah, it's so simple and it kind of flipped the direction I thought you were going to go. So thank you. Thank you. I wanted to land here, which is how do we bring in our fatherhood in our dad life, how do we live into this wholeheartedly, instead of with half our hearts? So just maybe any kind of final thoughts for the DadAwesome community around just being a wholehearted dad.
Banning Liebscher: [00:29:32] Yeah, well, the wholehearted concept for me is why the issue of intimacy and and fall madly in love with Jesus. Everything we do has to come from a place of love. Anything you're doing out of obligation, anything you're doing out of duty. Anything you're doing out of guilt, shame. Anything you're doing out of that, is not sustainable. And can't actually be wholehearted. So when it comes to being a dad, even being a dad has to come like true wholehearted dad is coming from a place of intimacy with the Father. And from that place, I want to go do what He's called me to do. And there are things I'm just telling you, like, we will do things begrudgingly, and we will do things that we cannot sustain out of duty or obligation.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:30:25] All the time.
Banning Liebscher: [00:30:25] But, but when we're in a place, when we keep our, and this is our responsibility, when I stay in that place of intimacy. I share this story a lot that, there was, when I was dating my wife, or even now, but but when I was trying to get her to say yes to me. There were, I would drive, so I lived in Redding, California. San Francisco's three and a half hours away. She was doing a missions trip for a summer down in San Francisco. I would get up Saturday mornings. I would drive down. I would have lunch with her, then I would drive back. Because I just wanted to see her. This before FaceTime, before everything. I never once complained about it. I never once was irritated with her about it. I never once did it begrudgingly, because I was in love. Now, if somebody that I didn't really know was like, Hey, can you drive down on a Saturday and just drive three and a half hours to have a quick hour with me and drive three and a half hours back? I mean, I might do it, but I'm irritated the entire way. I'm like, What am I doing? Why am I driving three and a half hours for this quick lunch? I'm irritated that I've had to give up my whole, my whole Saturday. Because I'm not in love. We do things out of intimacy, that we would either never do out of obligation or duty, or if we do, it's dragging our feet begrudgingly. And so my point is this, if you like, being a dad is hands down the biggest sacrifice I've ever had to make. I never realized I was selfish at the level I was until I'm a dad. Being a dad is inconvenient. It's annoying. It's emotionally draining. It's physically draining. It's, it's, it's just a massive inconvenience. And, you know, it's the best thing I've ever done. It's the most rewarding thing I ever done. But it is extremely costly and sacrificial. The reward of it's unbelievable. But my point is this, I've got to come from, I've got to come from like into, is that we make Dad sound, it's not quite that bad, but but, but you get my point like it, it does take real sacrifice to be a dad. I've got to come from a place of intimacy with the Father. Where, where out of intimacy with the Father, I just go, Oh, I want to go love my kids with everything I have. I want my kids to know how loved they are. I want my kids, this is even the fruit of the spirit, I'm a, I, my patience level is probably something that I got to work on. But one of the fruits of the spirit is patience. And the fruit of the spirit is just simply a representation of God. The fruit of the Spirit is the characteristics and nature of God. So God is patient and He is kind and He is forgiving and He is loving, and He like the truth. So I'm like, Oh, I want my kids to encounter patience. Now, if I do that, if I, if I, if I'm doing that out of duty, if I'm doing out of obligation, if I'm doing that anywhere, I just want to be, I cannot do anything wholehearted if it's not coming from a place of just I'm in love with, I'm madly in love with Jesus and I want to be about what He's about. So, I don't know if that makes sense.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:48] It does. It does.
Banning Liebscher: [00:33:49] I don't know how you, I don't think you can get the wholeheartedness, if you're, if you work harder at it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:33:55] Can't strive your way into it.
Banning Liebscher: [00:33:57] Yeah. You can't strive... So what I would say is this, the goal is not to work harder, it's to abide more. So if you're like, I want to be a better dad, well, you're going to have to work at it. But the point is not like I'm going to work harder. No, I've got to make sure that I am positioning myself in the love of the Father myself, so that I can go be the best version for you.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:34:16] You just can bring it. Yeah. Well, Banning, thank you for this second conversation. I'll track you down again in another three and a half years.
Banning Liebscher: [00:34:22] That would just be epic.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:34:24] That's the plan. [00:34:24][0.0]
Banning Liebscher: [00:34:24] I'm going to be 50. I'm gonna be 50. Think about the wisdom that I'm going to have at 50.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:34:29] We're going to be waiting in anticipation.
Banning Liebscher: [00:34:32] Sage mode at 50. That's like grandpa, elderly guy mode. That's what it feels like when I'm getting to it.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:34:38] Game on. Would you say a short prayer for all of us?
Banning Liebscher: [00:34:40] Of course. God, so grateful for, you know what I love, just the fact that there are men and fathers who are listening to this shows that their heart is to grow. They want to be better versions of all that you're calling them to. And so, Lord, I pray that you would move towards that humility. The Bible says that God gives grace to the humble and Lord, I pray that today just the simple act of humility to turn a podcast on. Just that act of humility that says I need to grow, I need to learn. God, You see that act of humility and I pray that You would respond with grace, that they would experience grace as a husband, as a father, as a man, as a friend, as a leader, as an employee, that they would experience grace in all that they're doing. We just bless them in the name of Jesus.
Jeff Zaugg: [00:35:43] Thank you so much for joining us for episode 303 with Banning Liebscher. The conversation links, the show notes with Banning's books and more information about Jesus Culture, the worship movement, church movement that he started is all going to be at dadawesome.org/podcast. So you can, it'll be right at the top there. Look, more information about just more of the show notes, more of the transcripts, conversation links, so check that out there. Guys, thank you for listening this week. Thank you for choosing to be intentional about the dad life. I'm praying for you guys. This whole movement of DadAwesome, almost six years now, this has been a prayer filled movement. We believe that when dads step in with their whole hearts, the family's changed. When dads step in, their circle of friends are changed, their neighborhoods are changed, schools are changed, soccer teams are changed, churches are changed. When dads take this role seriously and they prayerfully pursue the hearts of their kids and they lead. We're all about activating dads to lead with wonder. Let's have shiny eyes. Let's lead with like, Oh my goodness, I can't believe I get to be a dad. That's our heart here. That's your heart because you're listening today. Praying for you guys. Have a great week with your kids.
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· 13:10 - "Can my wife give me feedback? Can people around me give me feedback? The biggest thing is people giving me feedback about how they were experiencing me and then me having to go do the work around, what's going on inside of me? I think the Enneagram, Disc test, strength finders, love languages, Myers-Briggs, they're all these different ones. Those helped go, this is how I'm wired. They're there for this is when I'm stressed, how I respond, when I'm overwhelmed, how I respond, when I'm scared, when I'm hurt. Those things actually helped me a ton."
· 24:19 - "God's going to ask you about your relationships. He's going to ask you about the people that He put in your life, the people that you're called to disciple, the people that you're called to pour your life out for."
· 33:59 - "The goal is not to work harder, it's to abide more. If you're like, I want to be a better dad, well, you're going to have to work at it. But the point is not, I'm going to work harder. No, I've got to make sure that I am positioning myself in the love of the Father myself, so that I can go be the best version for you."
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